Thanks @RichardHanania for the excellent write up.

This is going to be spectacularly idiotic

It's like walking up someone on the playground and punching them in the face while saying they're not allowed to punch back because they're "getting even" 🤣🤣

@MalachiteEagle does it also mean they will drop tariffs for those that don't charge nearly any tariffs?

@MalachiteEagle VAT is taxing the poor

@JussiVilleHeiskanen i think you miswrote your question

@MalachiteEagle I mean he's right that from the US perspective there is not much difference between a VAT and a tariff (both are a tax on American companies, both are 'unfair' in that the US doesn't have a similar tax).

But from the perspective of the countries with a VAT, it's very different (why should US companies not pay taxes that local companies pay?) So their response will probably be very different.

@Shai well no, that doesn't make any sense. There is no perspective from which VAT is "unfair" to US companies. It's just bullshit 🤣

@MalachiteEagle It's unfair because a foreign company selling in the US will not face a VAT. That's what I mean by 'from the US perspective'.

@Shai but that doesn't make any sense in this context

@MalachiteEagle Why not?

@Shai The simplest way to see why a VAT isn’t “unfair” is to remember that it’s just a domestic consumption tax charged on all goods sold within a country, whether they come from a local producer or a foreign one. That means if a U.S. company wants to sell in a country with a VAT, it has to add the same VAT that domestic businesses do; it’s not like a special penalty aimed at foreign sellers, the way an actual tariff would be. Also, even though the U.S. doesn’t have a nationwide VAT, it has its own taxes, so this isn’t about one side “not paying its share.”

@Shai It doesn't matter what the US uses as a 'justification' for tariffs. If they raise tariffs on other countries, they will get hit back by reciprocal tariffs. This is why trade wars are stupid.

@Shai so no, the "from the US perspective there is not much difference between a VAT and a tariff" isn't real, it's just echo chamber lies.

-- alabama incestbabies when they fuck around and find out (circa 2025)

alabama incestbabies

@MalachiteEagle Lmao

@skibidist none of the people in this thread could define liberalism even if it bashed them over the head 😂

ah well

@MalachiteEagle i'd start by stating it was a further development/evolution from mercantilism, but my memory may be faulty

@MalachiteEagle and before Adam Smith, Anders Chydenius in Finland laid much of the ground work, but is rarely credited because his works for long weren't widely translated

@MalachiteEagle don't feed the trolls

@Shai But they don't make it harder for American companies to compete in foreign markets. Pretty hard to argue that VATs are unfair in any way.

@LukasTilmann Yeah VATs are more unfair to own populace than to foreign trade partners. Designed to trick people into thinking they are part of the price. Some polls show 3/4 of the general public are not aware of the VAT they pay on purchases.

Pretty cool that Trump fights it.

@skibidist right, but if you try and interfere with other sovereign nations internal taxation systems they will justifiably retaliate

@skibidist can't find the study you're referring to so I'm not entirely confident you didn't make this up. But either way, consumers pay the listed price, I don't see what's unfair if they don't bother to learn how the tax system influences prices. And it's certainly not up to Donald Trump to solve this for foreign consumers. Which isn't what he thinks he's doing, anyways, this is just obvious cope from you.

@skibidist labor taxes and capital taxes are part of the price of goods and services, just like consumption taxes.

If Trump wants to fight against consumption taxes there are plenty of them in the US.