The distinction between lying and bullshitting is fairly clear. The liar asserts something which he himself believes to be false. He deliberately misrepresents what he takes to be the truth. The bullshitter, on the other hand, is not constrained by any consideration of what may or may not be true. In making his assertion, he is indifferent to whether what he is says is true or false. His goal is not to report facts. It is, rather, to shape the beliefs and attitudes of his listeners in a certain way.

https://time.com/4321036/donald-trump-bs/

@ScottSupak Wow, what a profound misunderstanding of Trump's rhetorical style (I might even label that article "bullshit"). The term "truthful hyperbole" was coined in Art of the Deal and is a much better (partial) model of Trump's exaggerations and "lies".

@AlQuinn The article is from Harry Frankfurt, a prominent philosopher, as opposed to a bullshitting con artist who says things that may or may not be true depending on what he thinks you need to hear at the time.

@ScottSupak Hey, I liked On Bullshit but his take on Trump is so bad. I see the article is from 2016. I would have agreed with him then but I've moved on to better models of the world.

@AlQuinn lol, whatever. Not interested in discussing your love for a bullshitter. Point is you can never be sure he'll do what he says because everything he says is bullshit designed to shape perceptions, not relay facts.

@ScottSupak I didn't claim any love for Trump, but it's interesting you suggested that. It's as if trying to understand Trumpism is itself a thoughtcrime -- no we can't do that because it might legitimize a narrative not endorsed by The Blob!

Isn't "shaping perceptions" the entire point of language? Calling it all "bullshit" in the case of Trump is an oversimplification.

@AlQuinn I think there are two major views of trumpism,

1)He is an malicious moron who knows nothing only knows how to own the libs, and failed to overthrow the government due to lack of intelligence. i.e. a dumb Conman who only cares about his short term interests, not a man of ideas.

2) He's playing 5-D chess trying to shift the overton window by what seems like bullshit for his promised ideas and he is might be malicious in certain ways but his ideas are brought to moderation by the checks and balances. i.e. He knows exactly what he's doing.

I think both of them have little bit of truth to them but I tend to lean towards the former because to me the latter seems like a consequence of former, although I do think he has been consistent on isolationism so he does have some ideas. As hanania put it "Politics is full of bad people who more often than not do good things".

@AlQuinn aren't "bullshit" and "truthful hyperbole" just two ways of saying the same thing?

@MartinRandall the whole point of bullshit is that what's true doesn't matter. That's what makes it so dangerous.

@DogmaticRationalist "Politics is full of bad people who more often than not do good things".

Jim crow. Operation wetback. Vietnam. Iraq... seems like the number of things doesn't matter as much as the severity.

Arb (though this market should be higher, not equal) with:

@makeworld don't think there's any particular reason to believe that these two markets can be arbed in any way

@benshindel why not?

@makeworld you literally only linked that because you're the creator of that market and you're shilling it. Obviously if Trump DOESN'T impose tariffs on Canada, then that lowers the odds of the weighted average tariff being above 6%. However, apart from that there is very little connection between these two markets. Certainly it's not intuitive that one should be higher or lower than the other.

Regardless, unless you have no clue what the term "arbitrage" means, it doesn't apply to this situation at all. I suggest looking up what it means to arbitrage two markets.

@benshindel I feel this comment could have been friendlier.

@GazDownright so?

@ScottSupak 😂

If not arbitrage, I think having this market linked here shows an interesting correlation factor we should consider.

He told Trudeau that if he cannot handle his list of demands without ripping the U.S. off in trade, maybe Canada should really become a state or two and Trudeau could become a governor.

🤣 🤣 🤣

@AlQuinn according to anonymous sources.

@TiredCliche and confirmed by Dominic LeBlanc

@AlQuinn who?

@TiredCliche a canuck that was at the dinner

@AlQuinn So one of the anonymous sources then. Does this man appear to be eminently trustable to you?

@TiredCliche maybe, how would we know if the first source was anonymous? anyway no one is denying anything reported regarding the meeting