It's similar to "Polish death camps" and wrong in a very similar sense. It wasn't the Polish people who created the concentration camps and who persecuted Jews and other people there, including Poles. In the same way it wasn't Ukraine who started the war. Their only "fault" is the will to be a sovereign state, which Russia just can't allow

Polish seems to be a location modifier and not a responsibility modifier. Same for Ukraine war. I don’t see the issue.

@MrLuke255 thank you, I can't believe people are being intentionally dense about this.

That's how I named my markets, to be in line with what Wikipedia calls it.

And for Gaza:

“War in Ukraine” makes more sense.

Let’s say I want to run a market about whether fighting will cease by 2025. I’d frame it as “will the war in Ukraine cease by 2025”.

If I framed it as “will RuZZia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine cease by 2025”, I’ll rightly get questions like “does it count if Russia continues to occupy parts of Ukraine after the ceasefire?”, or “does it count if Russian troops withdraw and only leave local militia to fight?”

@Guess all of these questions apply to markets about whether the "war in Ukraine" has ended too. This is a simple question of framing. Russia is responsible. Would you say "war in Gaza"?

@Lorelai It depends what the question is.

“Will Israel’s invasion of Gaza end by 2025?” for “will Israel pull out of Gaza”.

“Will there be a ceasefire in Gaza by 2025” for an agreed cessation of hostility.

“Will the conflict in Gaza end by 2025” for any cessation in fighting, including by complete Israeli occupation and ethnic cleansing.

Personally I’d refrain from saying ‘war in Gaza’ on the basis that it’s not a conflict between two states, but that’s just preference.

I’d also push back on the idea that users should be obliged to make their wording less clear, for the sole purpose of signalling support for one side of a foreign conflict.

@Guess Russia invaded a sovereign nation, I'd refrain from saying "war in Ukraine" on the basis that it is an external aggressor conducting acts of aggression on a neighboring country. This isn't about support for a side, this is about accuracy.

What a naive question. "War in Ukraine", "Russo-Ukrainian War" etc. etc., are not dumb phrases, nor does it imply anything about who the user thinks is the aggressor in the war.

@vitamind russio-ukrainian war is fine. War in Ukraine presents the conflict as a civil war when it isn't (that's actually a rusaian propaganda tactic to present the conflict as a civil war), it's Russia's genocidal invasion. Hold them accountable, don't be complicit in spreading their propaganda for them. Can't believe this needs explaining.

@Lorelai How does war in ukraine present the conflict as a civil war? I didnt take it to mean that at all

i also refuse to be controlled by propagandists’ framing of the issue

@Bayesian because it indicates the war is localized to Ukraine instead of an incursion by a foreign aggressor. Words are important.

@Lorelai Which it is. ok.

@Bayesian it's frankly weird that you are so strongly against using the correct terminology.

@Lorelai define correct terminology? I am against tone policing, or term policing, when it's in a context where someone wants people to use a certain term because it signals more clearly which political side they support. I think that's stupid. as long as terms' intent are clear I don't see the issue

You have point. I'll try to back it. Different yet same topic, it's also frustrating to see "war in Gaza" while the reality is more like collective punishment and alleged genocide.

@GazDownright exactly, same situation in Ukraine, but with more kidnapping and reeducation of children in Russia's genocide of Ukrainians. Russia and Israel are both doing very similar things, though Ukraine never unleashed the first wave of violence like Hamas unfortunately did on October 7 (does not remotely excuse what followed and preceded, and Palestinians deserve their right to land and peace, of which they are being grossly deprived)

@Lorelai Yeah, similar, yet also very different.

@Lorelai it is wild to say Russia and Israel are doing similar things these conflicts are completely different

@strutheo IMHO!

@strutheo Bombing civilian residential areas seems very similar. Already more than twice the number of civilian casualties in Gaza than in Ukraine. There are similarities, and there are differences. Do we have to go down this road? 😩 😅

The most significant difference in eyeing up international conflicts is simply which part one is siding with.

@GazDownright actually it's not true that there are more than twice the number of civilian casualties in Gaza - that's a russian propaganda line – we don't know how many Russia has murdered in Mariupol but it could be anywhere between 10,000 and 100,000 (not to mention relativizing either is unhelpful, both are heinous)

@strutheo how are they dissimilar?

@Lorelai Ok

@GazDownright they killed around 500 in Bucha alone during that massacre, and Bucha is tiny. Mariupol is massive, occupation there is likely way way worse and the victims' stories can't be told. It's unspeakably awful. Thank you for getting it 💕