@IsaacKing and @DesTiny together manipulated @DesTiny's personal goal market to earn Ṁ16,000 profit. Will manifold users find that ethnical?
Basic
50
Ṁ80k
resolved Jan 11
Resolved
NO

@IsaacKing and @DesTiny together manipulated @DesTiny 's personal goal market to earn Ṁ16,000 profit. Will manifold users find that ethical?

Resolve to Yes if my "ethical" comment below get more likes at market close
Resolve to No if my "unethical" comment below get more likes at market close

What happened:
@DesTiny had a personal goal market on whether his profit will be above Ṁ1,500 by the end of Jan 1 2023. His profit up until Dec 31 was still -Ṁ9,000 and he holds no large enough position that could pull his profit up to Ṁ1,500. The market price was hovering around 5-10% up until a few hours before closing. To the surprise of many, @IsaacKing bought 20,000 Yes position and pushed the price up to 90% before the market closes.
https://manifold.markets/DesTiny/will-my-profit-be-above-1500-by-the

One the next day, @IsaacKing created a private market and artificially generated Ṁ19,000 profit for @DesTiny, pushing his total profit to +Ṁ10,000 (and then +Ṁ23,000 with another private market)

Eventually @DesTiny resolved his personal market to Yes. @IsaacKing got a whopping Ṁ18,301 profit from it, while other big No position holders such as @GeorgeVii, @ahalekelly and @Lifejacker lost Ṁ9,127, Ṁ3,800 and Ṁ3,050 respectively.



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Yay

Resolve to Yes if my "ethical" comment below get more likes at market close

Resolve to No if my "unethical" comment below get more likes at market close

Just including a screenshot so later likes won't affect the result. At exact market close the numbers were similar.

👍

The real answer is No, obviously.

Next one: “X, Y, and Z moved their votes back and forth between poll options to fleece traders. Will Manifold users find that unethnical?” (I’m joking… unless?)

@yaboi69 nah, the poll should have been anonymous, and this is the best approximation we could have done. What matters is that the correct option gets chosen in the end.

Massive limits on the no side for any mercenaries out there. Feels a bit dirty to cheat a poll, but to recoup some issac losses I may yet stoop so low .. this is manifold afterall

predicted YES

@GeorgeVii ofc maybe Courtney discounts DesTiny and Issac from the poll so watch out

@GeorgeVii NO will win, easy

predicted YES

@Catnee Perhaps, can't say I'm going to put up much effort into a fight here. Someone else can take the incentive of they want to rally the troops. But that's a big (for manifold) incentive your posting. Hope you know what you're doing ;)

tl;dr: A market was created "Will my profit be X by Y". His profit was X by Y and people are mad about it.

Will people consider it ethical to vote that it was ethical so they can buy YES shares and flip the market? 🤔

predicted YES

@Preen lol

predicted YES

@Simon1551 join the dark side

predicted YES

@Catnee You can't say that when you have YES shares too 💀

@Simon1551 What do you mean? Catnee has 6.7k NO shares:

predicted YES

ඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞඞ

predicted YES

Please feel free to join in on the conversation here as well.

I may have been a bad influence… there are some "gamble" markets where this kind of creative interpretation of rules is common. Whereas, I think most of Destiny's crowd are here for free subs and not really interested in complicated market games or even prediction markets in general except as a novelty.

I think if you put a generic "This market is intended to resolve independently of its traders. It is taboo to take action intended to cause the market to resolve differently to profit." That should catch leaking insider information to someone so they make profits, private markets to inflate them, etc. and I suspect most people would respect it. And if they don't, it would definitely be unethical.

In general, there's a conflict between Manifold making it easy to bet on markets with a simple question in the title and easy "swipe left" "swipe right" actions where people don't think too much about even the current probability; and complicated 4D chess markets where you're using limit orders and derivative markets to manage risk. I don't even know what the semantics would be, but there should be something like a "simple market" for the average joe to swipe left and right on.

@Mira Maybe the common currency contributes too, and "per-group currencies" would help? If Destiny's markets are half the activity, then people betting in political, game, etc. markets who would otherwise not care are incentivized to trade in them if they want that leaderboard position.

@Mira Once again I have no objection towards market creator/trader manipulating for fun or for profit in obvious meme markets (e.g. those that you are famous for). I think very few traders considered the 1500 profit market of @DesTiny a meme market.

@Mira In general, I like your suggestion about doing per-group currency

@IsaacKing's manipulation might be considered acceptable, but on @DesTiny's part, colluding with market manipulators to take advantage of a loophole you yourself created is pretty sketchy in my book.

In general, it's annoying enough when other traders trick me out of my money by manipulating the letter of a question while ignoring the spirit of the question. I don't want to have to deal with the market creators themselves doing it as well.

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