I am not sure the results of this poll are holding up as the situation in both Israel and Ukraine continues to develop. Ukraine is fighting a "lines on maps" type of conflict which is as black and white as war gets these days. The Israeli forces are almost precluded from thinking about "lines on maps" which makes it very hard to gauge progress toward the IDF's stated goal of the complete destruction of Hamas.

@BTE People wear the shit-colored glasses when they are making their votes!

@BTE Ukraine has made zero progress and has in fact lost ground since this poll, Israel has wiped out a large portion of Hamas' military capabilities.

@SemioticRivalry I recommend William Spaniel.

Eventually the Ukraine conflict will be coming to the end when the regime of Putin falls, slowly but surely. What Israel and others in this region want will never end as long as the religions exist! Ukraine has an achievable objective, Israel has an impossible objective.

I am sorry -- what exactly are the objectives? Can you spell them? Everyeone seems to have different views on this.

Very badly phrased question.

1) Ukraine -- Regain Territory to circa 2021 or circa 2013 or stalemate and make sure Russia does not make any more territorial gains as of cutoff date xx/xx/2023? -- It is not clear. Ukraine will claim get everything back including Crimea, US says anything that is close to the 2021 borders good enough, others like France I suspect will say -- the give Russia whatever they have gained till now and call it an end.

2) For Israel -- What is it? Elimination of Hamas -- if so how is this defined? What is Hamas is eliminated by several offshots come out (which they will) Is that considered elimination? OR is it get all the hostages back? or is it something larger -- no one has a clue as to what the objective is.

If you know for sure, please spell it out for both.

Undoubtedly, eliminating Hamas is more militarily achievable than liberating eastern Ukraine and crimea

@SemioticRivalry But it might require the ethnic cleansing and wholesale destruction of Gaza, which isn't really that big, basically the size of Washington, DC. Also, how do they know the hostages they are trying to rescue while eradicating Hamas (note the former is now the secondary goal, not the primary) aren't inside the large building they are blowing up? When you kill one Hamas terrorist, do you actually end up -1 or do you really create +10?? The US experience post-9/11 should create a lot of questions that aren't being asked, at least not loudly enough.

@BTE I'm not saying Israel has an easy task, but liberating Crimea and Eastern Ukraine appears to be near impossible right now, and Zaluzhny has said as much.

I'm not even close to being an expert in foreign policy, but I have listened to some people who do know a lot about it. My general thought is that eliminating Hamas will be super hard, as factions of it can break off and go into hiding or evade Israel in some other way. Ukraine's goal of reclaiming land is very achievable if the US keeps supporting them.

Achievable in what sense?

@JonnathanDasani In that there is a clear strategy along with the will and means to see it through in the face of fierce resistance to a well defined resolution. I think the short version of the two goals are in Israel "eradicate Hamas" and in Ukraine "repel invasion, reclaim our land and join fortress NATO".

@JonnathanDasani In Ukraine, we have been in that fight for basically 75 years and adding Ukraine to NATO is long overdue. It has actually been US policy since Dubya was president.

I am struggling to see any path to a final end game for Israel.