First post-debate poll shows Conservative lead:

@PeterNjeim what would this translate to in terms of seat count?

@SaviorofPlant probably a Liberal majority

It seems the odds have not dramatically flipped after the debate, is it Poiliover?

@TheAllMemeingEye Unfortunately Elmer Fudd may have made the saddest prediction of all:

(replace Trudeau with generic Liberal, it's mainly the highlighted text that matters)

@TheAllMemeingEye doesn't matter to me though, Canada's population gonna decrease by 1 and the greatest country on Earth's population gonna increase by 1

@PeterNjeim what do you feel are the qualities that make a country great?

@TheAllMemeingEye not whatever this is:

@PeterNjeim are the odds of Poilievre still 100%?

@SemioticRivalry As far as I'm concerned yes, as far as you're concerned maybe not

@PeterNjeim you may have noticed the expertly done sleight of words here. I never specified what the greatest country on Earth is, as it is wholly dependent on the outcome of this election

@PeterNjeim

not whatever this is

If it's not about money, then what would Trump's America have over a hypothetical Carney's Canada that wouldn't be even more so in Putin's Russia or Mohammad bin Salman's Saudi Arabia?

@TheAllMemeingEye "if it's not about [important thing ...]"

It's a nice hypothetical question, but at the end of the day governance is about two things, law and economics. The laws in Canada and America are both very Western and free, so the defining difference as far as I'm concerned is the money. We have lower growth, higher house prices compared to the median wage, higher taxes, etc. Pierre's gonna reverse that, and if Carnage Carney gets in it'll just be a continuation of the disastrous 10 years you can see in the graph I shared above

@PeterNjeim What stage of grief is this?

@Sz No grief, only pure bliss

@PeterNjeim So if it IS about money, then how is Ireland not the best country in the world based on the graph?

@TheAllMemeingEye Ireland's GDP is inflated due to being a tax haven

@PeterNjeim Poland then?

@TheAllMemeingEye Poland is a poorer country and has more room to grow from its late start to capitalism

@PeterNjeim How about Denmark? Both higher growth and similarly developed

@TheAllMemeingEye looking at its gdp history, 2015 was a dip year and therefore the growth rate is artificially high due to an accidentally cherry picked starting point. Also, it's Europe 🤢

The two countries highlighted on the graph are the only ones I consider valid countries to live in

@PeterNjeim

Also, it's Europe

Gonna need elaboration on that, the data points to Europe being pretty good

File:World Map of Subnational HDI.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

I've seen that map before, but unfortunately it's the HDI index, a useless hypersimplified aggregate designed for international bureaucrats to focus their attention. Also it's still mostly green lmao

Europe = gross, icky low innovation high regulation.

@PeterNjeim Perhaps this figure is more to your liking?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-025-04487-x/figures/8

@TheAllMemeingEye that is nice, but it's PPP, a hopeless flawed metric which inaccurately and rashly scales the entire GDP by a basket of domestic goods, even though international goods can't possibly scale that way. For example, a country with a low nominal GDP per capita but a high GDP PPP per capita doesn't magically have an easier time affording an RTX 5090. They can get basic necessities, but that's not what I care about when it comes to comparing developed countries. GDP PPP, once again, is a metric designed for the sole purpose of international bureaucrats to know which countries to focus on, not to differentiate high income countries from one another.

Anyways, obviously this back and forth is kinda tongue in cheek but my point is that Canada = great if Papa Pierre wins, otherwise time to legally immigrate to Daddy Donald

@PeterNjeim I guess I must concede that the US might have the strongest balance of current and growth of money for luxury goods within the set of culturally western and not yet fully totalitarian countries (though it is seemingly heading that way specifically due to trump)

@TheAllMemeingEye No politicians trying to throw you in jail for pointing out ficticious mass murders were ficticious, no mass gun confiscation, no spending half your income on rent, you don't need to learn Punjabi and Arabic to get by, the list goes on

@PeterNjeim The CPC are also far-left works by any international standard and PP has made it clear he's in the same boat, there's no hope for Canada and there never was

@Lexer average PPC voter

@PeterNjeim Didn't they go down the the path of the weirdo antivaxx nutjob as of late? No thanks

@Lexer they've always been an interesting group, trying to differentiate themselves from the Conservatives a little too much. Bernier should've stayed and become a minister imo. Wasted party like the Greens

@Lexer Please elaborate on your point about the CPCs position relative to international standards.

@Lexer

No politicians trying to throw you in jail for pointing out ficticious mass murders were ficticious

Are you referring to the nazi Holocaust? That would be an extremely bold claim on your part, possibly single handedly making you the most far right user to ever be on the site, beyond even @stardust , and bold claims require equally bold evidence to back them up.

no mass gun confiscation

Come on, it being illegal to have mass murder weapons is like it being illegal to do mass murder, it's common sense not tyranny. Tyranny is about having harsh punishments for minor or even non-offenses e.g. it being illegal to have cutlery in your kitchen or construction tools in your shed under penalty of death, or it being illegal to protest against Israeli atrocities under penalty of deportation to a Salvadorian concentration camp.

no spending half your income on rent

I haven't witnessed it firsthand but I hear that that is indeed how it is in places like NYC and SF.

you don't need to learn Punjabi and Arabic to get by

Even if you go to the most heavily immigrated neighbourhoods of the most heavily immigrated major cities of Europe (e.g. London, Paris, Berlin), you will almost certainly not need to learn Punjabi or Arabic to get by, it might help you communicate nuance and build cultural goodwill, but the vast majority of immigrant populations in my experience have at least a working knowledge of the national majority language since they themselves cannot get by without it.

@Lexer (guy spouting far right talking points)

(look inside)

(highly negative profits)

@TheAllMemeingEye I highly doubt that @Lexer is invoking holocaust denialism in this case; I suspect that it's in reference to something more canada-specific given the context

(No comment from me on the validity of either side of this issue; I'm not at all knowledgeable about it)

@Lexer can you confirm which mass murders you believe are fictitious and that politicians are trying to throw people in jail for pointing out are fictitious, ideally with some kind of source to back the claims up?

@TheAllMemeingEye

Are you referring to the nazi Holocaust?

I'm talking about the claims that mass graves were unearthed of thousands of innocent children murdered by Catholics, which caused outrage outcross the country and led to dozens of arson attacks against churches. When the claims came out they were repeated by the government and every TV show and radio station for weeks. I know for a fact you've heard about this because everyone in Canada did.

And later turned out the whole thing was fake as not a single human bone has been found, even to this day. And now the LPC/NDP gov't are, in what should be an affront to anyone who values free speech, trying to make it illegal to point out no such bodies have ever been found.

https://quillette.com/blog/2024/09/20/when-will-the-new-york-times-correct-its-flawed-reporting-on-canadas-unmarked-graves/

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-the-slippery-slope-reality-of-criminalizing-residential-school-denialism

Seriously, what the actual fuck is wrong with your head that makes you ask for "evidence" debunking the Holocaust when you know damn well what we're talking about?

Even if you go to the most heavily immigrated neighbourhoods of the most heavily immigrated major cities of Europe (e.g. London, Paris, Berlin)

I'm talking about Trudeau spiking immigration rates from 250k/yr to nearly 1 million/yr, something which has been massively unpopular and a huge political issue for nearly a decade now. And anybody who's spent any time living in Canada (or looking at a map) would know that Paris and Berlin are not Canadian cities and have zero relevance to what it's like living there.

The idea that a majority of Canadians are far-right for expressing displeasure with this absolutely insane. It's so out of touch it puts everything you say seriously into question.

https://www.environicsinstitute.org/projects/project-details/canadian-public-opinion-about-immigration-and-refugees---fall-2024

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp9z5rpgkyeo

https://nationalpost.com/news/canadians-worried-immigration-levels-too-high

The consensus against it is so overwhelming that even Trudeau himself came out against it when he was still vying for re-election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOB7-dbYuCc

Come on, it being illegal to have mass murder weapons is like it being illegal to do mass murder, it's common sense not tyranny.

Again, what on Earth are you referring to? I'm talking about the handgun, shotgun and hunting rifle ban and planned Phase 2 confiscation programme. Claiming that before Bill C-21, Canadians could just walk into a store and buy a machinegun is so divorced from reality it's not even a Liberal talking point — it's the kind of thing someone with zero knowledge of Canada would say if they're trying to troll and waste people's time.

https://www.getducks.com/duckseasonsomewhere/banned-12-gauge-shotguns-in-canada/

https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/nog7iy/why_cant_i_has_mini14/

I haven't witnessed it firsthand but I hear that that is indeed how it is in places like NYC and SF.

NYC and SF are not part of Canada and I have a very hard time believing you've ever lived in Canada for any period of time at this point.

You speak with such sheer confidence about what it's like to live in Canada, what Canadian laws are, what opinions are considered mainstream in Canada and what are "far-right", and what has (and hasn't) happened there, yet anyone who's lived there in the past ten years can tell you have no idea what you're talking about. It's so brazen that the only two explanations are:

a) You live in Canada and are choosing to play dumb and confidently spouting nonsense about the country in order to ragebait and accuse people of Holocaust denialism for laughs

b) You know nothing whatsoever about life in Canada, don't live in Canada, and chose to pretend otherwise and confidently spout nonsense about Canada in order to be disruptive and accuse people of Holocaust denialism for laughs

Regardless of which — as someone whose family came within literal inches of being killed by the SS — you can go fuck yourself for picking the Holocaust to be the center of your act.

@Lexer

Seriously, what the actual fuck is wrong with your head that makes you ask for "evidence" debunking the Holocaust when you know damn well what we're talking about?

(...)

Regardless of which — as someone whose family came within literal inches of being killed by the SS — you can go fuck yourself for picking the Holocaust to be the center of your act.

I thought you were talking about the Holocaust because the conversation up to that point was largely me arguing that Europe is pretty good and the other guy arguing that it was "gross and icky", after which you dumped a bunch of typical European far right talking points without referencing Canada

@Lexer your whole piece has this energy lol

https://youtube.com/shorts/HAv6iUjofZc?si=j8_JjkHdTGsdMpjK

I'm not even talking about Canada, I'm talking about Europe vs America, yet you're throwing the biggest hissy fit haha

@Lexer for the record I do respect that you added sources for your points but you severely misunderstood what the conversation was even about and got laughably angry about it

@TheAllMemeingEye What a bizarre motte-and-bailey.

All my previous replies were about Canada, this is a Canadian market, everyone else involved in this thread is Canadian or lived in Canada, and your Holocaust denial reply came after no less than four explicitly Canada-focused messages in a row. Not to mention the reply immediately before mine was about the US, not Europe — and the one immediately before that was explicitly focused on Canada.

And this claim that I was somehow invoking European far-right politics and not politically mixed Canadian ones is beyond bizarre.

The current immigration-skeptical consensus in Europe is similarly broad, to the point where a desire to tighten immigration isn't "far-right", it's been adopted by the center-right CDU/CSU and even the UK's center-left labor — a drastic change from the "no immigration targets" days of Corbyn not long ago.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/europeans-credit-eu-with-promoting-peace-and-prosperity-but-say-brussels-is-out-of-touch-with-its-citizens/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Security_Command

And I'm not sure of any European country currently confiscating anyone's guns. In fact, I'm not aware of the PiS, FN, AfD, or Brothers of Italy ever making pro-gun policy a major issue to the same degree as it is in Canada or America.

And to claim that concern over the price of rent is far-right is so laughable I'm not even sure what to say there. What far-right party is out there campaigning on permitting reform and YIMBYism?

If these are your earnestly held beliefs, then you read as a stereotypical very young American left/far-leftist insofar as you confidently and incorrectly assume every country's politics must operate identically to yours and parse it through the same hyperpartisan American framing (far-right is when guns and no immigrants).

you're throwing the biggest hissy fit haha

laughably angry about it

Regardless of whether or not you actually believe what you're saying, the fact I took the time to engage with you on a serious, factual level and you reply with puerile "lol u mad bro cuz i called you a holocaust denier?" nonsense makes it clear you're not interested in anything beyond juvenile trolling.

In that regard, if anyone here is worse than Stardust, I think it's you — no matter how vehemently he disagreed with us, even he engaged in remarkable good faith and never like this.