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https://www.state.gov/public-schedule-march-7-2024/
SECRETARY ANTONY J. BLINKEN
11:15 a.m. Secretary Blinken receives Sweden’s NATO Instruments of Accession at the Department of State.
(OPEN PRESS COVERAGE)
Final access time for video cameras, stills, and writers is 10:30 a.m. at the 23rd street entrance.
The event will be streamed live on the Department homepage and YouTube Channel.
Supposed to be tomorrow:
Sweden on Thursday becomes the 32nd member of NATO, a major step for a country once careful not to anger Russia.
Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson was visiting Washington where Secretary of State Antony Blinken will ceremonially receive the ratification documents after the hard-fought battle to secure the green lights needed from all NATO members.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/after-long-tussle-sweden-to-become-nato-member/ar-BB1jslwr
There is a bit of ambiguity on when exactly Sweden is considered to have joined NATO. I think the treaty is in force when deposited with the US (expected today) but ‘full membership’ won’t be until the ceremonies on Monday?
Which one will you use, @strutheo?
@voodoo if russia attacked sweden after the instruments are deposited but before the ceremony, do they have the full backing of nato
NATO’s website seems to say deposition brings the treaty into force:
The Treaty came into force on 24 August 1949, after the deposition of the ratifications of all signatory states.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm#:~:text=The%20Treaty%20came%20into%20force,ratifications%20of%20all%20signatory%20states.
@voodoo if they list Treaty in Force as a separate step i am going to at least wait until that is completed
@strutheo Right, the question is whether to wait for ‘full membership’. I think March 8th is going to split those two…
@voodoo worst case i NA if it is unclear i guess... im no legal scholar here so i think ill just go by consensus / news
@strutheo Yeah me neither. Another rabbit hole I’m going down for mana.
I think deposition is sufficient. This is Finland’s entry.
In accordance with Article II, the Protocol enters into force when each of the
Parties to the North Atlantic Treaty has notified the Government of the
United States of America of its acceptance of the Protocol.
@voodoo im also leaning deposition, my only question is - are there any differences FULL MEMBERSHIP will give them? like what actually changes beside the ceremony, if anything
@strutheo In Finland’s case both treaty in force and full membership dates are the same. I don’t know why they’re separate. I think it’s likely both will show 3/6 or 3/7 for Sweden anyway. Ceremony seems… ceremonial for lack of a better word.
@voodoo There are two treaties in play here: the Swedish accession protocol and the North Atlantic Treaty itself, i.e. NATO membership. The former is in force when Hungary deposits their notification, and it enables the NATO Secretary-General to invite Sweden to join the latter. Sweden then joins the latter treaty by depositing their notification.
@LasseRasinen can you answer my question about the difference after full membership if any ? I'm curious
@strutheo NATO themselves say deposition is when membership starts: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_174589.htm
@strutheo I'm assuming the Treaty in force refers to the accession protocol, and full membership to the North Atlantic Treaty. In Finland's case these two steps were separated by about 30 secs, or how long it takes to say "Hey Finland, wanna join the club?" in diplomatic language.
@strutheo yeah, I think complicated protocols require precise resolution criteria; I made my bet based on the official ceremony, not sure what you think
Today (27 March 2020), North Macedonia became NATO’s newest member, upon depositing its instrument of accession
Macedonia became a member when Macedonia deposited Macedonia's instrument of accession to the North Atlantic Treaty.
Sweden will become a member when Sweden deposits Sweden's instrument of accession to the North Atlantic Treaty.
This is different from, and absolutely must come after, Hungary depositihg Hungary's instrument of ratification of the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on Swedish Accession.
@strutheo there is no ambiguity: Sweden joins NATO when they deposit their instrument of accession.
What changes once that happens is:
they get a say on new members;
they get a say on any proposed amendments to the North Atlantic Treaty;
they might (and this is speculation) get access to at least a few perks of military cooperation with NATO members that were previously unavailable to them.
In practical terms, for what matters the most, they're already under US military protection since 2022; the US had already, unilaterally, committed to come to Sweden's defense if they were attacked (thus making the probability of an attack negligible). I believe plenty of other NATO countries – at the very least the other four Nordics, the three Baltics, Poland and Britain – would contribute to their defense.
@strutheo for those saying the deposition makes them members, there need to be TWO depositions: Hungary’s deposition of ratification, which does not automatically make Sweden members, and Sweden’s deposition of accession, which does grant membership.
Wikipedia’s usage of “Treaty in force” is misleading. Hungary’s ratification deposition does trigger the “enter into force” situation, but this refers to the Protocol of accession entering into force (as per Article II), not the actual North Atlantic Treaty. The Protocol entering into force just obligates the Sec. Gen. to invite Sweden to join, as per Article I. And only then can Sweden make their accession deposition, which automatically makes them members.
Plan is for Monday 3/11
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-to-fly-swedens-flag-on-monday/