If the change is distinguishable AND is worse, resolves NO
If the change is distinguishable AND is better, resolves YES
If the change is not distinguishable AND does not greatly (25%?ish) reduce time or inputs, resolves NO
If the change is not distinguishable AND does greatly (25%?ish) reduce time or inputs, resolves YES
If I determine the change is too difficult (I have my own mill but sifting by hand could be maybe too tedious?, stuff like grow my own wheat), I am liable to resolve that option N/A
I will judge all changes on the criteria:
Crust, Crumb, Moisture, Taste
blinding or double blinding as needed, including tests to verify that the changes are distinguishable and not subject to order effects.
I may have others, as available, provide their input on these at a rate of 50% or less of my ratings for a weighted avg.
I will extend the overall market until some period x where noone's interested and I've iterated through the suggestions.
Base Recipe:
800 g All-Purpose Flour, Unbleached (King Arthur)
600 g Water, RO filtered (Waterdrop G2P600)
17 g Salt, Coarse (Morton Kosher)
4 g Yeast (Fleichmann's/ REDSTAR)
Heat water to 30Β±1 Β°C
Add 17Β±0.5 g salt and 4Β±0.3 g yeast to jug
Mix in 600Β±5 g water to yeast and salt jug (prevents salt & yeast clumps in dough)
Weigh out 800Β±5 g flour in big bowl
Mix jug into bowl until no dry flour
Wait 14Β±2 hrs, bowl covered on dinner table
Preheat oven to 465Β±15 Β°F with Lodge cast iron dutch ovens inside
Split dough and shape into rounds
Place rounds on parchment paper and cut design
Open dutch ovens and place loaves
Spritz 30Β±2 g water around each loaf
Bake 30Β±3 min, closing and placing dutch ovens in oven
Spritz 30Β±2 g water around each loaf
Bake 15Β±3 min, placing dutch ovens in oven without lid
Place loaves on cooling rack
I never really disliked AI until this bot. It's worse than bad autocorrect.
1,000
I have attached an artistβs rendition of the concept.
This is my preferred method for two reasons: One, baking direct in a Dutch oven bottom tends to make a really thick and overdone crust at the bottom of the loaf. This provides a more even bottom crust.
Two, it is much messier to transfer the loaf to the pan and flip the oven on top. Less deforming and deflating of the loaf, and easier to position without getting burned.
To be clear, after fermenting in fridge you still need to take the dough out for final shaping and proving, not chuck it directly in the oven. The advantage of fermenting it in the fridge
Consistent: fridge temp is constant so there's less risk of overprooving
Convenience: you can actually leave it there for days rather than hours
The longer the dough stays in its wet form the longer enzymes have to break down the flour. This hopefully results in better spring in oven and better colour .
2x yeast
Wasn't sure what this would do, was not an improvement.
Resolved
NO
2x salt
Bet big that this would not be good and honestly surprised that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. 2xing the salt seems preposterous but the bread held up. External testers agreed the bread was too salty but not overly so. @Robincvgr had a better sense than I did of how close this would be.
Resolved
NO
Add 2tsp olive oil
Barely noticeable, might be contingent on using a potent olive oil? @Odoacre bet well against this.
Resolved
NO
Refrigerate dough instead of room temp wait
Retained its shape while shaping, that was nice! Crumb was underdone a smidge while crust was a great color, may play around with cooling a lil before shaping and baking to get a marginal improvement.
Resolved
NO
Put fork in microwave
Roommates were confused about fork in the microwave for sure... @Lorelai
Resolved
NO
2x yeast
Wasn't sure what this would do, was not an improvement.
Can you expand a bit on this? I find it a little bit surprising it had no effect at all. At the very least it should make the dough rise faster so you can cut the time by half, which should be an improvement by the rules. Do we need to add a "double yeast, halve proving time" answer?
@Odoacre over proofed and flattened out when baking in a similar way to the 24hr wait, but it wasn't as bad as the 24hr wait did, which wasn't terrible but wasn't an improvement, crumb was not improved and taste wasn't either. I just looked up the King art no knead recipe and I'm surprised how similar and different it is. They do water to flour 1:1 with less salt and less yeast!
@MarySmith there's probably a taste and crumb tradeoff here but it's less work than what I do https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/absolutely-no-knead-crusty-chewy-bread-recipe
@musteval do you mean to add it to the dough before it bakes/ do you mean add it to the bread mid bake?
Don't eat anything for at least 12 hours before eating the bread
@tobiasscheuer this is genius munchkinning haha
@MarySmith My personal shorthand definition is playing a game in a way that ruthlessly pursues power and victory at the expense of narrative storytelling, often through unconventional exploits of the rules which are technically allowed but somewhat against the spirit of the game.
TV Tropes page with more detail (but arguably a bit mean towards it): https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Munchkin
@tobiasscheuer accidentally ate at the end of the 12hr period before testing the bread π will have to try again in a separate 12hr window
@MarySmith if it does work we can try doubling the fast period to 24 hours. If it doesn't work maybe it was because the fast time was too short, so we should double it anyway.
By induction let's move directly to a 72 hour fast
@MarySmith Get a friend to refer a brilliant bread salesperson to you. In 15 years, while you are going about your day, they will approach you and offer you two slices of bread: one priced normally, and one priced expensively. Ensure they have expert persuasion skills, so you are convinced to purchase the more expensive loaf. After you finish the bread, the salesperson will reveal that this was your recipe from years ago. They will ask if you thought that the bread tasted significantly better than it had been in your memory. Then, come back and resolve my Manifold Markets option. If AI superhuman persuasion has been developed by then, use that as the salesperson.
Alternatively, let the taster be a friend. Present them with two slices of bread, and inform them (as an aside, so they are not tipped off that this is an experiment) that one has a shockingly high price and the other has a low price, and ask them which slice they think tasted better.
@NivlacM How would I operationalize that in a testable way? I can blind and double blind and literally blindfold myself and others but I can't blind someone to whether or not they thought positive thoughts...
Maybe I could have a confederate give me percievably different loaves and the same loaf without my knowledge and test if I perceive a difference in the same loaf on the basis of positive thoughts???
@MarySmith But even if you found a way to do this, would this be an objective improvement in the spirit of the market?
Well, I don't know if Louis Cheskin sense transferrence stuff has been replicated, but my prior on this is that, for the avg human experience, taste qualia is impacted by things that have nothing to do with taste like, what the packaging looks like, the perceived cost, the expectations of the taste π
"Taste illusions?"
Also when I lost and regained my taste perception when C19 got me, I started thinking, "Is any of this being quantified?" I remember thinking the minimum avg thresholds could tested across different demos to just get baselines. Glucose for sweet, nacl for salty, citric acid for sour, bitrex for bitter, iron oxide for metallic, msg for savory, dummy wafers/solutions to weed out taste illusions.
Has anyone done this bare minimum of research into taste?
@MarySmith like, there's got to be 60 years of research minimum done on this privately, what is publicly available?
@MarySmith blindfolded with someone giving you different and the same bread repeatedly was exactly what I had in mind!