>>The word "hired" usually implies an agreement, not a payment; if I sign on with a company, I have been hired at that time. <<

Yes, but were you hired? From what you have written the answer is no.

Manifold did not have an obligation to pay you until after they had acknowledged that you had completed the task successfully.

In this electronic age the acknowledgement of work done and the payment is made in sync.

Ok upon reflection, I gave contradictory impressions to different traders.

The word "hired" usually implies an agreement, not a payment; if I sign on with a company, I have been hired at that time, not whenever my first paycheck appears. So people would expect this to resolve YES based on a promise of future payment, not the payment actually happening.

Whether or not the subsidy distribution counts as "hiring" was unclear. When I first agreed to do it, there was no promise of payment; Austin only added that on later as a thank-you. But then I told traders here that it would count, and several people bet YES based on that. But then the payment didn't actually come through until today.

Since different traders were betting under different understandings of the market, and those understandings were not due to a mistake on their part but due to unclear and inconsistent communication from me, I think N/A is more appropriate.

For anyone who had invested a significant fraction of their net worth in this market, or spent significant time on it, let me know and I'll managram you to make up for the opportunity cost and wasted time.

@IsaacKing I'll re-resolve this to N/A as soon as Manifold's site starts working again...

fair outcome - thanks for the update/details

This was not a well-run market, sorry about that. Resolving NO since the payment didn't come until today, and I had implied in the comments that it must actually occur in order to count.

didn't really read through it all and think Isaac should mostly use his own discretion.

But Manifund is more like a public competition than a non-publically available offer IMO (although I don't think my opinion really matters that much here).

Pinged in discord for Staff clarification :-)

@SirCryptomind Please don't bother the admins too much, it's not scaleable if everyone on the site is pinging them for arbitration of Manifold-related markets, especially when that arbitration is not really needed. I think it's pretty likely that they'll agree with my assessment that it doesn't count.

@IsaacKing I'm not. I just wanted to make sure it was not forgotten about again since it got brought back up in Discord market discussion.
I think it is a YES, but I agree with the assessment you gave also, so I can understand it resolving NO.
I do have a position, but mostly out of FUN, not seriousness.

Huh, this market got weirdly popular. In retrospect I don't think the "here's some mana, go give it out to people and we'll send you some extra as a thank you" really fits the spirit of "hiring", but I already said it was included, so, too late now.

@IsaacKing You haven't actually been paid the extra yet, though, right? I don't see a managram besides the M50k subsidy amount.

@Mira Correct

https://i.imgur.com/YZNOXWs.png

@Rucker manifest reality through betting the wrong direction - I'm sure it will work this time! ;P

@RobertCousineau Is that a Manifold reference?!?!!!??!

Isaac said in the comments that he would resolve a Yes scenario basically right away, so whatever yall are hoping already happened either didn't count or wasn't true this morning when last he was active.

@Panfilo Note that while that is my general policy on markets, it's not a guarantee, and it's pretty common for me to forget about an open market that's just had its resolution criteria met.

@IsaacKing Under what conditions would your Manifund projects count?

@Conflux It specifically states "not a publically-available offer", which Manifund was

@case I don't think it's more publicly available than a job listing is. It's not like anyone can just claim money from Manifund.

imo manifund is kind of akin to the second bullet, in which an offer is available "publicly" but only to a small or chosen group

@shankypanky Yep. I think the best argument against Manifund counting is that the money isn't "from Manifold," it's from community funders. Though one could also argue that this money is being filtered through Manifund and therefore counts.

(Note also that James Grugett is a funder for Isaac's projects.)

got it - thanks for chiming in! from what I can tell on the Manifund site, funds are distributed via the Charity or at the very least, they facilitate the connection/allocation. so I've bet Yes mostly based on that but I could understand the perspective on community funders (rather than coming directly from the Manifold coffer).

@Conflux for the Manifold Community Fund projects, once a month Manifold is going to award prizes for people doing projects (e.g. pay people, as Manifold). https://manifund.org/causes/manifold-community?tab=about

Hmm, Manifund is an annoying edge case. I'm inclined to say it's most like the wiki edits in my first bullet point. Anyone can do one, and if Manifold likes it enough they pay for it. Personal knowledge about me doesn't factor into their decision, since they're only paying out for the work I've already done. It's not really a "position" I hold as an individual, or at least it doesn't really feel that way to me.

technically I suppose anyone could say that about any "job"? I'm not aiming to be contrarian of course, just checking in. you applied for something and were approved and while it's true that it was more about your project proposal than you as an individual (perhaps), it's also the case that they selected a project made by you, based on your idea and credentials and ability to deliver something of value.

I get the wiki analogy as only certain people have the ability to perform edits so it's entirely possible you still feel they're the same (and I'd get that). the Manifund scenario is certainly not like a role that can only be filled by a single person and yet, I personally couldn't discredit that it's just as much about you (insofar as your experience brought you to offer, apply, and be approved for this) as it is about the project?

I'm also not directly involved in a manifund project so maybe I'm seeing it incorrectly, too.

@shankypanky Tell you what, it anyone from Manifold says that it should count, then I'll count it. Otherwise I'll stick to not counting it.

@IsaacKing haha fair. I'll remain here on the edge of my seat.

@IsaacKing I don't think it would be wise for somebody from Manifold to say that they have "hired" you for a "role". Aren't there legal ramifications for putting it in those terms? With that in mind I'm going to hold NO.

@HankyUSA everything is above board, though? a 'role' doesn't have to be an employment contract. the company (through an established, transparent process) agreed to exchange money or mana for the work and delivery of a proposed project. it's true the US is obscenely litigious but I think it would be a stretch to say that Manifold could suffer any consequences from suggesting this market resolves Yes, personally.