In the 2024 US election, will Manifold beat 538 on accuracy?
114
1.1kṀ9512
resolved May 13
Resolved
YES

Specifically, this is about predicting which states end up voting for which presidential candidate.

(Default 538 model.)

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As Bolton noticed, my 538 probability for Arizona was wrong; I suspect I looked at Arkansas instead since it's "AR" on the map. I've double-checked all the other 538 numbers and they're all correct. This changes 538's score to 0.03026254, making it a win for Manifold instead, apologies everyone. @mods please re-resolve.

Ok, corrected results:

Manifold: 0.028468

538: 0.02834056

Still a victory for 538, but much more narrowly.

@IsaacKing I’m impressed with the amount of work put in for this one.

@IsaacKing Am I wrong in saying that the Arizona entry for 538 is wrong? By my calculations this would make it a win for Manifold.

@BoltonBailey Good catch.

Um, ok, I've just discovered that Manifold's UI shows wildly incorrect probabilities when I zoom in on a specific date.

https://discord.com/channels/915138780216823849/1370569382949818438

So these results may be wrong. Will investigate.

I guess there's an argument that if Manifold is displaying inaccurate probabilities, that is indeed a severe problem with their forecasting accuracy, and they should lose this market because of it. :P

But given that the graph shows the a different probability at a different zoom level, this is IMO obviously just a bug that should be corrected for.

@IsaacKing if you're using the bets then you'll have the correct probs, I made some changes to the graphs recently to cache past points but there is a bug if you zoom in on a section of a MC question where there are no points (bets) in that timeframe

Briar scores:

538: 0.02834056

Manifold: 0.041784

Out of curiosity I ran it with probabilities capped to 0.01/0.99 for 538 (Since Manifold's UI can't go outside those bounds but 538's can) and it has negligible effect. Even capping 538 to go no lower than 10% and no higher than 90% and it still wins. (~0.036.) Manifold got totally destroyed here.

Ok yeah no that was wrong, 538 would lose if capped aggressively.

538 true results: 0.02834056

538 with 1 pp cap: 0.028396

Manifold correct results: 0.028468

538 with 2 pp cap: 0.028594

I'm kinda curious if Manifold would have won if I had used the API data that can go above 49 pp from 0.5, but not enough to check.

Sorry for the delay. I had said I would use results from 1 week before the election, but there's no 538 archive of that day on the wayback machine, so I'll use 6 days before instead. Here's the 538 forecast:

https://web.archive.org/web/20241030220607/https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/

And here's the Manifold one: https://manifold.markets/election

I'll use Manifold's probability at 22:06:07 Pacific time on October 30th, to be consistent with 538.

538 rounds its probabilities to the nearest 1 percentage point, except it distinguishes between "99%" and ">99%". I'm not sure exactly how they do their rounding, so unless there are any objections I will treat any prediction of ">99%" as though it were 99.9%.

And I'll use the displayed probability in the UI for Manifold as well, since that's what people think of as the "Manifold prediction", and it seems unfair to 538 if I were to use an API for Manifold and not for them.

I won't include DC since I had just said "states" in the description, though that was a misthought on my part, I just forgot it existed. Oops.

Chance of Harris victory from each platform. I transcribed these by hand so maybe double-check my work.

538:

Alabama: 0.001

Alaska: 0.03

Arizona: 0.001

Arkansas: 0.001

California: 0.999

Colorado: 0.98

Connecticut: 0.999

Delaware: 0.999

Florida: 0.1

Georgia: 0.36

Hawaii: 0.999

Idaho: 0.001

Illinois: 0.99

Indiana: 0.001

Iowa: 0.06

Kansas: 0.001

Kentucky: 0.001

Louisiana: 0.001

Maine: 0.94

Maryland: 0.999

Massachusetts: 0.999

Michigan: 0.57

Minnesota: 0.87

Mississippi: 0.001

Missouri: 0.01

Montana: 0.001

Nebraska: 0.001

Nevada: 0.47

New Hampshire: 0.85

New Jersey: 0.99

New Mexico: 0.92

New York: 0.999

North Carolina: 0.37

North Dakota: 0.001

Ohio: 0.04

Oklahoma: 0.001

Oregon: 0.99

Pennsylvania: 0.47

Rhode Island: 0.999

South Carolina: 0.01

South Dakota: 0.001

Tennessee: 0.001

Texas: 0.07

Utah: 0.001

Vermont: 0.999

Virginia: 0.9

Washington: 0.999

West Virginia: 0.001

Wisconsin: 0.55

Wyoming: 0.001

Manifold:

Alabama: 0.01

Alaska: 0.08

Arizona: 0.28

Arkansas: 0.02

California: 0.99

Colorado: 0.97

Connecticut: 0.98

Delaware: 0.94

Florida: 0.07

Georgia: 0.32

Hawaii: 0.99

Idaho: 0.02

Illinois: 0.98

Indiana: 0.02

Iowa: 0.06

Kansas: 0.04

Kentucky: 0.33

Louisiana: 0.01

Maine: 0.92

Maryland: 0.97

Massachusetts: 0.9

Michigan: 0.58

Minnesota: 0.91

Mississippi: 0.02

Missouri: 0.02

Montana: 0.02

Nebraska: 0.02

Nevada: 0.38

New Hampshire: 0.85

New Jersey: 0.97

New Mexico: 0.93

New York: 0.98

North Carolina: 0.31

North Dakota: 0.33

Ohio: 0.11

Oklahoma: 0.02

Oregon: 0.33

Pennsylvania: 0.51

Rhode Island: 0.98

South Carolina: 0.03

South Dakota: 0.02

Tennessee: 0.02

Texas: 0.06

Utah: 0.02

Vermont: 0.98

Virginia: 0.88

Washington: 0.99

West Virginia: 0.02

Wisconsin: 0.54

Wyoming: 0.01

Results:

Alabama: 0

Alaska: 0

Arizona: 0

Arkansas: 0

California: 1

Colorado: 1

Connecticut: 1

Delaware: 1

Florida: 0

Georgia: 0

Hawaii: 1

Idaho: 0

Illinois: 1

Indiana: 0

Iowa: 0

Kansas: 0

Kentucky: 0

Louisiana: 0

Maine: 1

Maryland: 1

Massachusetts: 1

Michigan: 0

Minnesota: 1

Mississippi: 0

Missouri: 0

Montana: 0

Nebraska: 0

Nevada: 0

New Hampshire: 1

New Jersey: 1

New Mexico: 1

New York: 1

North Carolina: 0

North Dakota: 0

Ohio: 0

Oklahoma: 0

Oregon: 1

Pennsylvania: 0

Rhode Island: 1

South Carolina: 0

South Dakota: 0

Tennessee: 0

Texas: 0

Utah: 0

Vermont: 1

Virginia: 1

Washington: 1

West Virginia: 0

Wisconsin: 0

Wyoming: 0

Calculating scores, with each set of states reduced to an array:

let sum = 0;
for (let i = 0 ; i < 50 ; i++) {

sum += (predictions[i] - results[i]) ** 2;

}

console.log(sum * 1/50);

Corrected Manifold totals:

Alabama: 0.01

Alaska: 0.08

Arizona: 0.28

Arkansas: 0.02

California: 0.99

Colorado: 0.97

Connecticut: 0.98

Delaware: 0.94

Florida: 0.07

Georgia: 0.32

Hawaii: 0.99

Idaho: 0.02

Illinois: 0.98

Indiana: 0.02

Iowa: 0.06

Kansas: 0.04

Kentucky: 0.02

Louisiana: 0.01

Maine: 0.92

Maryland: 0.97

Massachusetts: 0.9

Michigan: 0.58

Minnesota: 0.91

Mississippi: 0.02

Missouri: 0.02

Montana: 0.02

Nebraska: 0.02

Nevada: 0.38

New Hampshire: 0.85

New Jersey: 0.97

New Mexico: 0.93

New York: 0.98

North Carolina: 0.31

North Dakota: 0.01

Ohio: 0.11

Oklahoma: 0.02

Oregon: 0.98

Pennsylvania: 0.51

Rhode Island: 0.98

South Carolina: 0.03

South Dakota: 0.02

Tennessee: 0.02

Texas: 0.06

Utah: 0.02

Vermont: 0.98

Virginia: 0.88

Washington: 0.99

West Virginia: 0.02

Wisconsin: 0.54

Wyoming: 0.01

@IsaacKing It seems there is something wrong with the 538 totals too. Your record above puts 538 Arizona at 0.001 but seems to me this should be 0.31.

@IsaacKing Thoughts on how this resolves?

@StepanBakhmarin No it's not paywalled, but I think it's hard at this point to see what the probabilities were 1 week before the election, since it will now be showing the frozen model from the night before.

um this is free mana for whoever wants to do the math haha

the 538 predictions are still only available to payed subscribers right? Otherwise I might do it

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