1,000
3.00I could be wrong, but I think the market creator is the only one that can see polling. That being said, simply don't vote.
Half of America is voting for Trump, just because the USA is polarized doesn't mean someone is a bad person for voting for one or the other.
I will not be sharing who votes what for what that is worth.
@Haws You can see who votes for what by clicking on the "X votes" number, even if you're not the market creator.
@Snarflak, Generally social consequences I assume. There’s no way in hell I’m gonna hire of fund somebody who is online actively demonstrating what I perceive to be expressions of overt racism and hatred.
Many people see Trump support as that, and as a result there absolutely are material consequences for publicly supporting Trump. This is a well documented phenomena, even in surveys known to be anonymous.
@Qoiuoiuoiu Which option do I choose if I'm voting third party (because I live in a blue state and my electoral vote will certainly go to Biden)?
@Snarflak I may just be a dumb Canadian, but.... doesn't your electoral vote not come from you directly anyway but the people who you elected for your state? Which means you are not voting for Biden, but your state is. This question isn't about "which candidate will your state submit to the electoral college?".
In that case, not voting/not American is the place for all the independent votes (so you can see results).
@Snarflak Leave it to the Biden supporters to have nothing but ad homs, no real substance whenever someone disagrees with them. Biden started 2 new wars, Trump didn't. Biden is arming and funding a genocide. Biden has ruined the economy which is something that even liberals will have to contend with at the ballot box assuming they pay their own bills.
Despite being a Catholic Sleepy Joe is also fine with murdering babies in their mothers' wombs, the fact that he hasn't been excommunicated really shows that RCs are losing their grip and that Bergoglio is a joke. Oh well
Leave it to the Biden supporters to have nothing but ad homs
I'm not a Biden supporter. Like the majority of Americans, I dislike both candidates, but Trump represents a threat to the future of our Republic, while Biden is merely a temporary embarrassment.
Biden started 2 new wars
Biden is not responsible for Russia invading Ukraine or for Gaza invading Israel.
Biden is arming and funding a genocide.
Israel's war with Gaza is sad, but unambiguously not a genocide.
Biden has ruined the economy which is something that even liberals will have to contend with at the ballot box assuming they pay their own bills.
How so? Seems like he's done a pretty good job of turning off the money printers and getting COVID inflation under control.
Despite being a Catholic
I'm no longer religious, so I don't care what religion the Presidential candidates pretend to follow for votes. They are all bad, in my view. (Trump is one of the least godly, most sinful people I have ever seen, though, for what that's worth.)
Sleepy Joe is also fine with murdering babies in their mothers' wombs,
I am no longer "Pro-life", and I now understand that abortion isn't murder. Personhood does not begin at conception. Identical twins form after conception and do not have their own unique DNA, yet are still independent people with their own rights. Conjoined twins form from a single conception which never separates, yet they are two independent people sharing a single body. Parasitic twins also form from a single conception which never separates, but are not people with rights, and can be ethically surgically removed, because they lack a brain and mind. Chimeras form from two conceptions and have two sets of DNA, yet are a single person, with one mind. The brain is the seat of personhood, and personhood requires at the very least a capacity for consciousness, which human embryos do not have until the formation of the thalamo-cortical complex around 24 weeks gestation, at which point >99% of abortions have already happened, making them perfectly morally benign. The <1% of abortions after this point are in a gray area, but are likely morally fine, and many are actually morally obligatory, to prevent the suffering of a malformed fetus after birth.
Anyway, even if Biden did destroy the economy, while pooping his pants and falling asleep and killing babies, we use a flawed voting method that results in a two-party system, so I would still vote for him over the guy who attempted a literal coup and claims that the Constitution can be terminated while praising dictators and authoritarian governments. The Constitution is non-negotiable.
The only way that Biden could be the worst president of your lifetime is if you were born after Trump's term ended, which would make you 3 years old.
@Snarflak
> I'm not a Biden supporter. Like the majority of Americans, I dislike both candidates, but Trump represents a threat to the future of our Republic, while Biden is merely a temporary embarrassment.
Ok. I have the opposite view. I'm not the biggest Trump fan ever, he wouldn't end the genocide in Gaza and stand up to Israel either. That said, he would get our economy back on track. He would stop green lunacy. He would stop giving billions of dollars to Ukraine. He wouldn't try to re-institute abortion. Whatever you think about Trump, I agree hes not a real Christian (at least he's not RC) he's competent. Unlike the guy in office we have right now.
> Biden is not responsible for Russia invading Ukraine or for Gaza invading Israel.
Gaza invading Israel? LOL. Also, that doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't have happened under Trump. They happened because everyone views Biden is a joke. Russia and China know he's weak. Our allies know he's in mental decline.
> Israel's war with Gaza is sad, but unambiguously not a genocide.
Call it whatever you want then I don't think we should support Joe Biden arming and funding a largely civilian massacre then. I'll continue to call him Genocide Joe because that's quite frankly who he is
> How so? Seems like he's done a pretty good job of turning off the money printers and getting COVID inflation under control.
Look at energy prices under Biden vs. Trump. Look at inflation under Biden vs. Trump. Biden ruining the economy and then half-patching it with bandages, Elmers glue, and pure hope isnt an accomplishment.
> The brain is the seat of personhood, and personhood requires at the very least a capacity for consciousness, which human embryos do not have until the formation of the thalamo-cortical complex around 24 weeks gestation, at which point >99% of abortions have already happened, making them perfectly morally benign. The <1% of abortions after this point are in a gray area, but are likely morally fine, and many are actually morally obligatory, to prevent the suffering of a malformed fetus after birth.
Look dude you're putting in a lot of secularist presuppositions there but even if I take it at its face that "maximize utils good" "brain = human" "suffering always BAD" then you have to take the extremist position that infanticide is morally permissible because surely a fully formed adult is much more conscious than a newborn right? Maybe the infanticider was simply saving the newborn from a life of poverty, or even more importantly, saving themself from the responsibility.
> Anyway, even if Biden did destroy the economy, while pooping his pants and falling asleep and killing babies, we use a flawed voting method that results in a two-party system, so I would still vote for him over the guy who attempted a literal coup and claims that the Constitution can be terminated while praising dictators and authoritarian governments. The Constitution is non-negotiable.
You can call J6 whatever you want, it wasn't a "coup" but I guess this is coming from the same people who call Trump a literal fascist. Hes mean sometimes ok fine but we were an actual country under Trump and that's what Americans are starting to figure out
Ok. I have the opposite view.
In what way is Biden a threat to the future of our country? Has he said that he wants to be a dictator or that the Constitution can be terminated to keep him in power?
That said, he would get our economy back on track.
Based on what? His own claims? His term is responsible for the greatest inflation rates in decades; what makes you think he'll do a better job the second time around?
Gaza invading Israel? LOL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Look at energy prices under Biden vs. Trump. Look at inflation under Biden vs. Trump.
I did. Look at the graph.
He would stop giving billions of dollars to Ukraine.
Russia and China know he's weak.
So it's bad that he's funding Ukraine to resist Russian conquest, but he's also "weak", somehow, and that's why they invaded? Trump would be stronger against Russia by … withholding aid to Ukraine and allowing Russia to win? At least try to make sense.
then you have to take the extremist position that infanticide is morally permissible
Try actually reading what I wrote instead of just making assumptions about it.
You can call J6 whatever you want, it wasn't a "coup"
Then what was it? What would you call it if the loser of an election tries to take power by force in any other country? Why doesn't it count as a coup in ours?
@Snarflak
> In what way is Biden a threat to the future of our country? Has he said that he wants to be a dictator or that the Constitution can be terminated to keep him in power?
When has Trump said in those words that he wants to be a dictator? Only one president has a real chance of starting WW3 which is a much larger existential threat then anything Trump has done or plans to do
> Based on what? His own claims? His term is responsible for the greatest inflation rates in decades; what makes you think he'll do a better job the second time around?
Record low unemployment. Low energy costs. Low inflation during the whole Trump presidency. You cant give Biden a pass because of coronavirus then label Trump responsible, thats just special pleading
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Hamas doing a terror attack isnt the same as the full on invasion that Israel is doing of Gaza, unless 9/11 was an al-Qaeda invasion into our nation. I dont think thats what an invasion is and it sure doesn't justify the death of 30000 civilians
> So it's bad that he's funding Ukraine to resist Russian conquest, but he's also "weak", somehow, and that's why they invaded? Trump would be stronger against Russia by … withholding aid to Ukraine and allowing Russia to win? At least try to make sense.
Two things can be true at once. The West has always been encroaching on Russia, so it's obvious that Russia would want to resist that. Who's better to declare war against Ukraine under, a weak or strong US president? Biden is actually just as responsible for the death of Ukrainians as Putin by propping up Zelensky and giving them false hope by wasting billions of taxpayer dollars on Ukraine while they send their youngsters to the front lines instead of forcing Zelensky to make peace.
> Try actually reading what I wrote instead of just making assumptions about it.
What under your framework would differentiate "24 week gestation" which is in a "moral grey area" from a newborn infant? If you're basing utils on consciousness then please explain to me how infanticide isn't the logical conclusion as an adult is most likely much more conscious than a newborn or 1 year old?
> Then what was it? What would you call it if the loser of an election tries to take power by force in any other country? Why doesn't it count as a coup in ours?
Sure dude, a coup where Trump didn't try to call the military to kill people. A coup that was made up of mostly peaceful protestors, what kind of coup is that? If you want to talk about real coups how about Ukraine in 2014?
When has Trump said in those words that he wants to be a dictator?
Some direct quotes:
Hannity: “Under no circumstances, you are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?” Trump: “Except for day one."
“He says, ‘You’re not going to be a dictator, are you?’ I said: ‘No, no, no, other than day one. … After that, I’m not a dictator.’”
"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution"
“Then, I have an Article II, where I have to the right to do whatever I want as president"
He also makes a lot of disturbing comments admiring authoritarianism and violent suppression of protest:
"There’s nobody that’s better, smarter, or a better leader than Viktor Orban. He says, ‘This is the way it’s gonna be,’ and that’s the end of it."
"[Kim Jong Un] is the head of a country, I mean he is the strong head. Don't let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same."
"[Xi Jinping is] now president for life. President for life. And he's great. … I think it's great. Maybe we'll give that a shot someday."
"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. … That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak"
Even if you don't perceive these the same way most of us do, can you at least understand that they sound like violent authoritarian threats? Some of his followers interpret them that way, too:
"Trump should already know he has an army willing to fight and die for him if he says the words...I’ll take up arms if he asks."
"1,000,000 men (armed) need to go to Washington and hang everyone. That's the only solution"
"Someone in NY with nothing to lose needs to take care of [judge] Merchan"
"Time to start capping some leftys … This cannot be fixed by voting."
"AMERICA FULLY DESTROYED BY DEMOCRATS. LOCK AND LOAD"
Only one president has a real chance of starting WW3 which is a much larger existential threat then anything Trump has done or plans to do
Are you implying that Biden is going to "start WW3"? How? How would Trump handle it differently? By capitulating to imperialists?
Record low unemployment. Low energy costs. Low inflation during the whole Trump presidency.
Why did the inflation rate increase in 2021?
You cant give Biden a pass because of coronavirus then label Trump responsible, thats just special pleading
Are you blaming Biden for the pandemic that occurred before he was President?
Hamas doing a terror attack isnt the same as the full on invasion that Israel is doing of Gaza,
How is it not the same? Because their weapons aren't as good?
Two things can be true at once.
Sure, but not those. You're simultaneously criticizing Biden for funding Ukrainian resistance to Russia (vs Trump withholding military aid to Ukraine), while also claiming that Russia invaded because Biden is "weak". Pick one.
Who's better to declare war against Ukraine under
The one who won't hand over the territory without a fight?
What under your framework would differentiate "24 week gestation" which is in a "moral grey area" from a newborn infant?
Nothing.
Do you understand what "grey area" means? It means an area in which morality is ambiguous, in which there is no clear answer. My claim is that >99% of abortions are morally fine because they occur before the grey area begins. In the "white area", you could say. Do you understand? You can't murder something that is fundamentally incapable of consciousness or suffering or experience. It's not a person. If you remove it from the womb before that point, it never wakes up.
I was an anti-abortion Christian for the majority of my life, but I changed my mind because "life begins at conception" is logically untenable. (And even the Bible recommends abortion, in Numbers 5, if that's important to you.)
Sure dude, a coup where Trump didn't try to call the military to kill people.
Yes, a coup in which he tried to have the votes of states he lost thrown out arbitrarily, and replaced by his own hand-picked "electors". Then, when Pence did the right thing and thwarted Plan A, an attack by armed paramilitary against the US Capitol.
A coup that was made up of mostly peaceful protestors, what kind of coup is that?
Did you just arrive from a parallel universe? Please get out of your echo chamber and watch the actual footage of the event:
c8fc9979cc35f7062cd8715aaaff4da475d2fadc
He knew his supporters were armed and he sent them to attack the US Capitol, after having bombs placed to divert the police away from the building. Again, Plan B was thwarted when most of the Capitol police did not side with the insurrectionists and resisted them.
If you want to talk about real coups how about Ukraine in 2014?
What about it?
Ok, for the Hannity quote hes clearly joking. Liberals can't take a joke nowadays, it's the same thing with all the "diversity" stuff. And Trump is right. We already have a fraudulent President who isn't being held accountable so if Trump gets into office he needs to be held accountable.
> He also makes a lot of disturbing comments admiring authoritarianism and violent suppression of protest
Well first off I think Viktor Orban is a good leader, much better than most of the others in Europe which is finally coming to sanity a little bit. As for everything Trump has said about Xi, I dont like China so I wont defend that but strength recognizes strength. Trump recognizes that whether we like Xi or not he cant be messed with. That's also why Russia didn't invade Ukraine under Trump
> Are you implying that Biden is going to "start WW3"? How? How would Trump handle it differently? By capitulating to imperialists?
Biden is a weak leader who everyone sees as exploitable, which is why Russia invaded Ukraine, and he is too willing to antagonize everyone who isn't woke. Even our allies. He called Japan xenophobic for instance, hes not a serious leader
> Why did the inflation rate increase in 2021?
Idk who was President in most of 2021?
> Are you blaming Biden for the pandemic that occurred before he was President?
No, if anyones to blame its Dr Fauci. Im saying that if youre going to bring up COVID aftershock that cant be blamed on Trump unless youre also willing to partially blame Biden
> How is it not the same? Because their weapons aren't as good?
I dont think Hamas has ever killed 30000 Israeli civilians before. If a 4 year old puts his wet finger in my eye I dont have a right to shoot him. Or actually thats not analogous. It would be like if a 12 year old did that and I shot his 4 year old sibling. That's what Israel is doing, but no one is gonna stop it because in the words of Thomas Massie "everyone has an AIPAC person"
> Sure, but not those. You're simultaneously criticizing Biden for funding Ukrainian resistance to Russia (vs Trump withholding military aid to Ukraine), while also claiming that Russia invaded because Biden is "weak". Pick one.
Have you heard that quote "speak softly and carry a big stick?" Biden does the opposite. He provokes invasion and then funds war when it happens. Because foreign leaders know that Trump isn't messing around, I doubt Russia would have invaded in the first place. There is no contradiction here and you asserting there is indicates your opinion that the future (Trump or Bidens action in response to the Russian invasion) can influence the past.
As for what Trump would have to do of course initially you support Ukraine and show Russia youre not messing around, but you also tell the Ukrainians that they need to negotiate for peace or the aid will end eventually
> Nothing.
Then why isn't it a "moral grey area" to kill a newborn infant so long as the woman feels sufficiently distressed over it, say its a product of rape or something
> Do you understand what "grey area" means? It means an area in which morality is ambiguous, in which there is no clear answer.
Yes. Do you understand I wasnt asking about the moral white area? I was asking about your line because I think its absurd. I think any abortion is wrong but if youre not religious then oh well I cant appeal to that so I'll appeal to the intuition that killing a baby is absolutely wrong
> I was an anti-abortion Christian for the majority of my life, but I changed my mind because "life begins at conception" is logically untenable. (And even the Bible recommends abortion, in Numbers 5, if that's important to you.)
How so? Also Numbers 5 doesnt say what you think it does. It mentions nothing of pregnancy only unfaithfulness. And even if it was somehow an abortion which I reject, that wouldnt imply the rightfulness of abortion. God has a right to take life and for it to be just yet I cant murder someone. This is obvious. Anyways the Bible is NOT pro abortion (Exodus 21:22-25). Church fathers all condemn abortion too
"A woman who deliberately destroys a fetus is answerable for murder. And any fine distinction as to its being completely formed or unformed is not admissible amongst us."
St. Basil the Great, "Three Canonical Letters," Loeb Classical Library, III, 20-23
> You can't murder something that is fundamentally incapable of consciousness or suffering or experience. It's not a person. If you remove it from the womb before that point, it never wakes up.
This is a secularist presumption that denies the existence of the soul and God so I disagree
> Yes, a coup in which he tried to have the votes of states he lost thrown out arbitrarily, and replaced by his own hand-picked "electors". Then, when Pence did the right thing and thwarted Plan A, an attack by armed paramilitary against the US Capitol.
If it was a paramilitary, how many shots were fired? How many people died at Jan 6th? If we're being honest it was one and it was a Trump supporter https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/
> What about it?
That's a real coup that we backed with a leader overthrown and a lot more death and violence