If I try using VS Code instead of Emacs for working on Manifold Markets, will I want to keep using it a week after I begin?
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Resolution is simply based on my own judgment of what I prefer. I will resolve the market one week after I begin using VS Code. If I decide not to bother trying VS Code right now I will resolve N/A. I have been using Emacs for about 20 years, and my setup for working on the Manifold codebase (Typescript web app with React) involves mostly `web-mode`, `typescript-mode`, `company`, `lsp-mode`, and `magit`. I wouldn't say I am a big Emacs guru, I am just comfortable with it. If I try out VS Code I will be using the FOSS version of it on Arch Linux with Sway. I haven't tried any new editors in a long time, except for occasionally using Visual Studio and IntelliJ for .NET and JVM projects in particular. May 10, 12:55pm: And I guess also I use `vterm` a lot. May 10, 10:17pm: I installed VS Codium and I plan on trying it out this next week, so it's not gonna resolve N/A.
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I did try it out for a while. It seemed like it was probably fine, likely about as good as Emacs in most ways, but I was clearly gonna have to do a bunch of work to get it to be just as comfy. For example, the window management worked differently, and I was going to have to change my muscle memory for one million keybinds and M-x commands, and so on.
I felt in general that it was not really designed for 100% keyboard use -- for example, in Emacs, my `vterm` works just like another Emacs buffer, so I am extremely good at navigating around it with the keyboard, but in the VS Code terminal, it's...like some random terminal. Like, I didn't know how I was supposed to copy and paste from it, for example, without using the mouse. And when I try to close a buffer with unsaved changes it literally makes a popup on my screen. WTF? I am supposed to like, tab through these buttons, instead of typing Y or N?
Another example: when I have an error in one of my files, and I move the cursor to the error, as far as I can tell, it didn't have something like the Emacs minibuffer that instantly shows me the error. I have to either hover my mouse or hit Alt-G N (which then pops up a thing that I don't know how to get rid of without the mouse.) I use my laptop for programming and I am not gonna sit around fiddling with a trackpad while I do it.
The magit extension was a nice effort but it was just missing a ton of really good magit features. For example, it had no mechanism for configuring branch properties, the refs view has way less info, it doesn't have fully interactive diffs (e.g. if you go into a commit it's just a big plain text buffer without collapsible diff sections...I can't even M-N/M-P to navigate between them...), it has nothing like Emacs `forge` for working with GitHub issues and PRs... I could go on. It's really not a substitute.
Probably the only thing I thought that was clearly better was just that sort of the overall look and feel felt more modern. Like, maybe the status bar looked a little nicer than my modeline?
All in all, I think it seems like a fine editor which I would cheerfully recommend, especially to someone who doesn't like tinkering -- I am sure it takes less tinkering than Emacs. I could probably somehow use extensions to fix a lot of the things I didn't like about it. But I didn't see anything about it that made me excited to do that when I do like tinkering and I have an editor I like already.
@mqp Makes sense. If I had known that keyboard-only editing was a priority for you, I would not have bet YES, since VS Code is indeed very pointer driven and I haven't heard of anyone using it in a keyboard-only capacity (though I am sure there is somebody, somewhere)
May I also submit WebStorm for consideration https://www.jetbrains.com/webstorm/ ๐
I consistently find JetBrains IDEs having the best language models/support.
> I have always found it a pain to get Emacs to do everything modern IDEs do - it's usually possible but very finicky. I also had a very bad time trying to work with frontend code in Emacs, but it sounds like you've got that figured out.
This got way better in like, the past 3 years, with LSP integration. Before, I would always have to fiddle with projectile/company/flycheck/major-mode settings for every language I wanted an IDE-like experience in (i.e. projects, completion, inline errors, formatting), but now it seems like I just turn on LSP and it works great for everything.
I primarily used Emacs for most of my life, but have recently started using modern IDEs more and have had a generally positive experience with them.
I have always found it a pain to get Emacs to do everything modern IDEs do - it's usually possible but very finicky. I also had a very bad time trying to work with frontend code in Emacs, but it sounds like you've got that figured out. On the other hand Emacs is extremely customizable and there are often minor annoyances in my IDE where I don't know whether it's possible to change them.
If you're already using Emacs comfortably that's a decently high bar for an IDE to clear, but I'd say it's probably worth a try.
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