Resolves YES/NO to majority vote of poll I will hold around market close. If the poll is 50/50 I will resolve to PROB=50%.
Related questions
🏅 Top traders
| # | Name | Total profit |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ṁ56 | |
| 2 | Ṁ46 | |
| 3 | Ṁ43 | |
| 4 | Ṁ36 | |
| 5 | Ṁ31 |
@levifinkelstein I’m kinda new to manifold markets. What is going on with this market you initiated and closed? Are you ok? Are you planning to resolve this, or should we ask the administrator to do so? Let me know if I can help you. All the best!
Racism is profoundly and personally hurtful because it strips individuals of their inherent worth and potential, solely based on the color of their skin or their ethnic background. It's a venomous ideology that not only damages the targets of racism but also corrodes the moral fabric of society. Having witnessed friends and loved ones endure the painful consequences of racism, I've seen firsthand the emotional scars it inflicts.
Racism perpetuates inequality, creating barriers to education, employment, and opportunities. It engenders fear, erodes self-esteem, and sows division within communities. As a society, we suffer when racism goes unchallenged, as it inhibits the collective growth and progress of our diverse human family. The richness of our world lies in its diversity, and racism robs us of the chance to learn, appreciate, and collaborate with people from various backgrounds.
On a personal level, racism offends my sense of justice and empathy. It reminds me of the importance of fighting for equality, dignity, and respect for all, irrespective of their racial or ethnic identity. It underscores the necessity of personal responsibility in standing up against racism and working to build a more inclusive, harmonious world.
@MinaBrown YES l agree racism is bad and this is the reason why
There are harmful consequences of racism on education and employment which are substantiated by extensive statistical data. looking at the realm of employment, black workers suffer startling discrepancies. They are twice as likely as white workers to be unemployed, with unemployment rates of 6.4% compared to 3.1% for white workers. This disparity remains even among college-educated persons, with black workers experiencing higher unemployment (3.5%) than comparably educated white peers. https://www.epi.org/publication/labor-day-2019-racial-disparities-in-employment/#:~:text=Summary%3A%20Black%20workers%20are%20twice,vs.%202.2
Racism has a same devastating impact in schooling. By early 2021, 58% of Black fourth graders were learning remotely, compared to 27% of white kids, indicating a large racial difference in educational access during the pandemic.
some of the things an individual will experience out of racism.
A study of over 800 Australian secondary school students found that racism had huge mental health impacts on young people who experience it, including: ongoing feelings of sadness, anger, depression and being left out, headaches, increased heart rate, sweating, trembling and muscle tension, a constant fear of being verbally or physically attacked, not wanting to go to school, having little or no trust in anybody apart from family(https://humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/whyisracismaproblem.pdf)
Furthermore, racism influences the distribution of educational resources, resulting in disparities. According to a survey conducted by the United States Department of Education, 45% of schools serving low-income and minority children got less local and state money than schools in more affluent communities. These figures clearly show how racism creates enormous impediments to education and employment, hurting equity and opportunity for impacted populations.
https://www.theclassroom.com/effects-racism-schools-8703390.html
@redcat People who hate racists seem like a very annoying type of person. I'm imaging these super progressive snowflakes who're overly obsessed with social justice. The based position is to understand that racists are just human and that hating them doesn't help.
@levifinkelstein It really is surprising how much of an overlap exists between people who think criminality is just a product of circumstance and people who think those who hold the wrong beliefs are innately evil
@Frogswap Where did you pull that assumption from? Don't say it, I don't want to know.
When I read these pseudo-rationalist ramblings, with straw man arguments about what the left supposedly define as racist and the many other unintelligent and extra edgy posts by this user (eating excrement etc.), I don't think it has anything to do with "evil". I think the person writing this has a huge need for validation, has the mental age of a teenager, is not very educated and is quite hateful and unbalanced. Besides this one person however, IMO this whole discussion here is mostly bullshit. Nerds getting off on their keen analytical minds. I'd argue most of the people taking part would sound very different, if they were sitting in a room with a black person. Tbh hopefully they'd just shut up in that case.
Now you could say it is hypocritical to accuse others of being hateful when I myself say that I "like people who hate racists" and I would even go so far as to say that I hate racists myself. But I don't hate them for who they are, I hate them for what they do to others and for what they have done to others in the past. And don't give me that BS about "not liking black music is (or isnt) racist" and all that other crap, as if these were the very specific scenarios that define racism. You all know very well what racism is.
@redcat What is the assumption? I don't think it's particularly contentious to say that there are a lot of people who believe that criminals need rehabilitation and racists need exile; I've met quite a few.
I am someone who is actually against hate, as a matter of principle. I don't hate people of color, I don't hate racists, I don't hate people who hate racists, and I don't hate people who like people who hate racists (with the obvious exception of myself, whom I loathe). I find it quite frustrating that people have gathered under my flag, claimed my principle as their own, and now routinely tell me how I don't belong there because I'm not hateful enough.
I think it is morally wrong for someone to judge people, make assumptions about them, insult them, or cast doubts on the sincerity of their intentions, regardless of their victim's race, gender, or beliefs. I also think it is wrong to behave differently because there is a black person in the room. I don't think it's hypocritical to hate racists, but I do think it's hypocritical to call people self-aggrandizing nerds for arguing their positions while you sneer at them in lieu of an argument- arguments are at least plausibly intended to convince others, but sneers can only achieve self-aggrandizement.
@Frogswap Okay dude, I'll let you guys continue to discuss whether racism is bad. Maybe you'll figure it out.
As an exercise defending anything, here's my argument that racism isn't inherently bad:
Racism is usually defined as discrimination of people. But arguably if someone doesn't like a culture that is associated with certain race or ethnicity, that is also racism. This can be demonstrated with an example: if someone doesn't want to hang out with people of certain race, but when accused of racism, they say that they have nothing against people, they just don't like their culture, this won't work as a good defense.
Most people seem to accept preferring some cultures over others, based on their choices in music, film, etc. This suggests people don't think it's wrong to discriminate between cultures to some degree.
One can argue that it's ok to prefer certain movie, but beating people up over race is bad. But too much of anything can be bad. So perhaps only the intensity makes racism wrong, not the concept itself.
@roma Not liking rap music is not what most people mean they use "racism" colloquially. An actual example in that vein would be a sentiment akin to "Black people have such trashy taste in music," which is racism, and which is not an example of mere cultural indifference. Are there some forms of cultural indifference which are morally acceptable? Of course. If you go to a cultural festival and say, "I dunno, I found it kind of boring, personally", that's fine, and it's also not racism. Actual racial discrimination isn't things like "I don't personally like their culture," but rather, "I think their culture is objectively inferior and I'm going to treat them or regard them as lesser because of it."
Black people have such trashy taste in music," which is racism,
Why is that racism and
"I dunno, I found it kind of boring, personally
Is not racism?
Actual racial discrimination isn't things like "I don't personally like their culture," but rather, "I think their culture is objectively inferior and I'm going to treat them or regard them as lesser because of it."
A person can easily say
"Black people have such trashy taste in music,"
Without think it's objectively inferior
@levifinkelstein "Trashy" is a value judgment. "Boring" denotes a personal reaction to something (i.e. I didn't find it interesting).
@roma And also people who find black people to be less attractive, are they racist? What about people who're just instinctively more intimidated or afraid of black people. If someone genuinely think white people are on average more attractive, is that racist? Not saying anything about "objectively".
"Trashy" is a value judgment. "Boring" denotes a personal reaction to something (i.e. I didn't find it interesting).
"trashy" and "boring" are both value judgement. And many people, myself included, intend them as subjective value judgements.
@levifinkelstein
> And also people who find black people to be less attractive, are they racist?
It's fine to say that you're less attracted to them, but it would not be fine to say they are less attractive generally.
> What about people who're just instinctively more intimidated or afraid of black people
Instinctively? Yes.
> "trashy" and "boring" are both value judgement.
I disagree that "boring" is a value judgment in this case. I think that book clubs are boring, but I don't think they're bad because they're boring. If I say that music is trashy, I *am* saying that it's bad. There might be contexts in which someone uses the term "trashy" endearingly, but it is most commonly meant derogatorily.
@NBAP Why is being instinctively less attracted to black people not racist but being instinctively more afraid of them is?
I disagree that "boring" is a value judgment in this case. I think that book clubs are boring, but I don't think they're bad because they're boring.
Value judgement != thinking something is bad
There might be contexts in which someone uses the term "trashy" endearingly, but it is most commonly meant derogatorily.
Or sometimes people make trashy shit. Black people have their own culture, and maybe sometimes some of the stuff they do is "trashy". And that obviously goes for white people as well.
And you can think something is "trashy" without thinking the people who made it are horrible inferior degenerates.
@levifinkelstein
> Why is being instinctively less attracted to black people not racist but being instinctively more afraid of them is?
Attraction is a preference and is subjective, whereas fear is a response to danger. There is an objective answer as to whether or not it is justified to be fearful, whereas the same is not true of attraction.
> Value judgement != thinking something is bad
What do you take "value judgment" to mean?
Fear and attraction are both subjective and often very instinctive and not very in your control.
There is an objective answer as to whether or not it is justified to be fearful, whereas the same is not true of attraction.
Why is that relevant to whether it's racist?
What do you take "value judgment" to mean?
Judging the value of something. A thing can have many values, for example how interesting/boring it is. Or good/bad it is. etc.
@levifinkelstein
Fear is an emotion, but there is a fact of the matter as to whether or not fear is justified. There is no fact of the matter as to whether or not attraction is justified.
> Why is that relevant to whether it's racist?
Because if you're afraid of someone, based on their race, without a justification, that is a racial prejudice.
> Judging the value of something. A thing can have many values, for example how interesting/boring it is. Or good/bad it is. etc.
Definition of "value judgment", according to Cambridge Dictionary:
"a statement of how good or bad you think an idea or action is"
But whatever, I'm not going to fight you over the term if you use it differently.
Because if you're afraid of someone, based on their race, without a justification, that is a racial prejudice.
Yeah, but I'm asking you why: "Why is that relevant to whether it's racist?"
Definition of "value judgment", according to Cambridge Dictionary:
"a statement of how good or bad you think an idea or action is"
But whatever, I'm not going to fight you over the term if you use it differently
Lol, nice cherry picked definition. In philosophy the term is generally used for values of any kind. It's used to denote the distinction between objective facts and subjective facts.
You think it's a racial prejudice but not racist?
huh?
I'm just asking you why this is true "Because if you're afraid of someone, based on their race, without a justification, that is a racial prejudice."
@levifinkelstein
Prejudice:
"an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason."
So it seems like fear of a particular racial group, without justification, is racial prejudice, no?
Ok, so it seems like you're saying that your definition of racism is "an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed (about a race) beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason."
Is this correct?
@levifinkelstein
That's the definition of (racial) prejudice. The definition of racism is:
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."
@levifinkelstein
I don't have a private language; I use dictionary definitions unless I have a particular use case which requires me not to.
@NBAP If that's your definition of racism, then finding black people less attractive is racist since you're discriminating based on black skin color, black facial structure, etc.. Agreed?
@levifinkelstein
No, I don't think a lack of attraction is an unfavourable feeling. If you feel that all Black people are ugly, then yeah, that might be racism.
@NBAP If a person thinks black people are on average less attractive (to both them and society), is this person racist?
@levifinkelstein I don't know what "for society" means, but very possibly.
The definition of prejudice does say unfavourable, hence I don't think not being attracted to someone is prejudice.
The definition of prejudice does say unfavourable, hence I don't think not being attracted to someone is prejudice.
what about "discrimination" what does the dictionary say there?
@levifinkelstein Is saying "Black people are less attractive to people in society" an objective claim? If so, how would you evaluate it?
> what about "discrimination" what does the dictionary say there?
"the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability."
@NBAP Funny how I can go to a different place and find a different definition that doesn't serve your point.
Discrimination, the intended or accomplished differential treatment of persons or social groups for reasons of certain generalized traits.
src: https://www.britannica.com/topic/discrimination-society
@levifinkelstein I don't think that gets you there anyway, because I don't think attraction towards someone is a treatment of them.
Is saying "Black people are less attractive to people in society" an objective claim? If so, how would you evaluate it?
I don't believe in objective value judgements. I'm just talking about the people's preferences
@NBAP So if person doesn't go to a dating even because almost everyone there will be black which the person is almost never attracted to, is that racist? That is a treatment. Surely it's not sexist if a straight man doesn't got to a dating event where only men are present.
@levifinkelstein If you're just stating, "I believe it is measurably true that more people than not find Black people less attractive than the average racial group", and you had evidence to support the belief, then I don't believe the belief is racist, no.
> So if person doesn't go to a dating even because almost everyone there will be black which the person is almost never attracted to, is that racist? That is a treatment.
No, it's obviously not. Choosing to not go to an event that you're under no obligation or expectation to go to is not a treatment towards the people at that event.
@NBAP What if I don't date a black person just because they're black? Under your same logic, since I'm "under no obligation or expectation" to date them, is this not a treatment?
What about an employer not hiring a black person? They're under no obligation or expectation to hire anyone
@levifinkelstein Not dating a Black person because they're Black and you're not attracted to Black people so you're not attracted to them? That's not racist, no. There may be racial prejudice underlying your feelings towards Black people, but the choice not to date a Black person is not racist, no.
When you're not dating black people because you don't find black people attractive, is that treating them differently or not?
@levifinkelstein In order to treat them differently, you need to first be treating them any sort of way at all, i.e. behaving in some sort of way towards them. There is no relevant sense in which you are "behaving" some way towards someone you have no interaction with at all.
@NBAP "you have no interaction with at all." what if they come up to you and try to date you?
@levifinkelstein Then your treatment of them is how you behave towards them, not how you don't behave towards them. If you are polite in turning them down, then you have treated them with courtesy.
The way I see it is that one treatment is "turning them up on their offer" and another is "turning them down on their offer"
If you take treatment 2 instead of treatment 1 then you're treating them differently.
@levifinkelstein I maintain that not dating someone is not "treatment" in the sense you would need it to be for this argument to go through, but I'm not going to argue with you about it. Perhaps >50% of people voting on the poll will disagree with me on this.
@NBAP That's fine think I've thoroughly demonstrated my dominance in this discussion and will be mounting a big fat W on my wall.
@levifinkelstein Damn. Well, hopefully I'll be able to afford my own wall-mounted W with my profits from this market.
@levifinkelstein I'm not rehashing the applicable meaning of "treatment" with you, but employers have obligations to applicants in their hiring practices. It's fine for a person to simply not be attracted to Black people, but it's not acceptable for a business to not hire Black peoplr simply because they're Black.
@roma (response to thread OP) The dose makes the poison in the platonic realm as it does in the mundane. To murder someone is a capital offense, to millionth-of-a-murder is to take someone on a car ride, or steal a minute of their life with a bad joke. Everyone's a bit racist, but not everyone's racist. Loving your family more than a stranger has racially disparate impact, as does aparthied, yet one is racist and one isn't! Lim x->0 (x*racism) = 0 doesn't mean racism = 0.
I don't think there's a principled way to find 'meh, I don't enjoy indian music' to be notracist but 'black music is trash' to be categorically racist, they're really quite similar statements if you believe in the universality of aesthetic judgements in music (which many do), just with strongly different social connotations because racism-adjacent things are very taboo. Probably the idea is that, just based on the kinds of people that actually exist, most people who say 'black music is trash' are racist and people who aren't racist wouldn't say something like that. But that can't hinge on the morality of the belief itself, just what existing norms of speech are. It's definitely possible for a type of aesthetic expression to be trash, and aesthetic expressions (obivously) strongly correlate with cultures, so statements of that form could easily be true. That it isn't true in this case (most listeners of stereotypically black music aren't black) doesn't mean statements of that form can't be true! E.g. someone who says "Korean music is trash" probably doesn't have any particular animus against koreans, and just doesn't like kpop.
And then nbap's claims about objectivity vs subjectivity don't really make sense imo. If all whites refused to date black people for supposedly aesthetic reasons, that'd probably still be racism.
@jacksonpolack
> I don't think there's a principled way to find 'meh, I don't enjoy indian music' to be notracist but 'black music is trash' to be categorically racist
There's a very easy one, which is that one is much more derogative than the other. If you said "I don't enjoy black music at all" it's much less racist.
To be honest though, one reason both statements are kind of racist even in this form is that there are many different kinds of 'black' (gospel, jazz, hip-hop, blues, to name only a few of the staggering amount of black-invented music genres) or 'indian' (carnatic, Bollywood, just to name two). These genres are all very different and it's unlikely that you'd feel the same about all of it, if not for a non-music-related latent variable that explains your feelings.
@AdriaGarrigaAlonso I don't think 'more derogative than some undefined threshold' counts as a principled way to distinguish one thing from another.
@AdriaGarrigaAlonso I guess this proves @jacksonpolack right, as it's not a categorical distinction like they specified