Do turtles dream?
14
2
103
resolved Jun 20
Resolved as
20%
post evidence / reasoning, and I'll decide based on evidence at the end of a week
Get Ṁ200 play money

🏅 Top traders

#NameTotal profit
1Ṁ53
2Ṁ2
3Ṁ1
4Ṁ1
5Ṁ1
Sort by:
hmm inconclusive, but I'm more convinced that they dream than before.
bought Ṁ10 of NO
Sinclair said she seemed skeptical…
No theta waves in reptiles: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2070255/
bought Ṁ10 of YES
Reptiles passing through REM on the way to slow-wave sleep makes me lean towards 'yes'.
predicted YES
I look forward to the ensuing "what is a dream, tho?" debate quickly descending into angry opines on the ontological status of qualia.
predicted NO
REM sleep seems correlated but not the same as dreaming though - in humans, dreaming can but does not always happen during REM sleep. I like the working definition of "what is a dream" from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8211436/ : "patterns of neural activity, predominately within the cerebral cortex, that form transient imagery, experienced as conscious thought, that can be considered mental representations (Morgan, 2014), occurring during physiologically defined sleep". Not sure about the conscious thought part, but patterns of neural activity that form transient imagery during sleep sounds like a pretty reasonable starting point.
predicted YES

@Duncan Slightly off-topic, but REM in spiders: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204754119

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqqain8Ti4A this video seems to insinuate that they have aspirations
(sorry.)
Una volta che avrai spiccato il volo, deciderai. Sguardo verso il ciel saprai: lì a casa il cuore sentirai.
bought Ṁ50 of NO
Found one study on aquatic mammals (not directly relevant to turtles): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8211436/. I still don't really know how to interpret it, but it offers some reasonable approaches to the question I think.
I'm personally skeptical (5%) but not betting since I'm resolving