@traders how do you all feel about mana being locked up and probably being forced to take a loss when it reopens at a low value again + funding paid? surely there needs to be some compensation here for all the long positions

@bigyahu sounds like we aren't paying funding. so really it's just about enjoying the ride to a good spot again after it reopens

@Stralor hmm, we shall see

@Gen is this going to update any time soon? i want to get out of this market, its just locking up my capital

@bigyahu it should have unstuck itself, but I’ll try to fix it later when the oracle roughly matches what it was when it froze

@Gen isn’t that unfair to long holders who are paying funding and will have the market reopened when price is back at or below entry? i would appreciate if you would minimally offset losses / reset mana balances on this market for those with ‘losses’ caused by the delay.

@Gen i hope you guys will find a solution to this that doesn’t severely disadvantage those with presently open positions, do let me know if there’s any intention to do so thanks

@bigyahu you are not paying funding. I am also considering closing the market indefinitely and voiding the open positions, solution TBD

Why is the Oracle update delayed? The graph is updating to the value on the website. Shouldn't this mean we can trade(or at least not be be blocked for the Oracle update delay)?

@frankjiang Does funding continue even when the market is suspended?...

@frankjiang I think this is actually the market being suspended due to lack of liquidity (or some other issue?) and the error message isn’t communicating that correctly.

@Emanuele1000 seems I'm still paying funding at an outdated price and can't escape 😭

@Emanuele1000 Sorry about this market being so terrible. It will eventually be shut down, because there really isn't a good way to preserve it. It was very informative though, helped us catch some bugs, and speedrun how predictability impacts trading and funding rates.

It doesn't seem so useful in this instance, but for SPY, QQQ, etc., I need to know how we can manipulate the levers to impact the trading experience (and know what breaks/drains the pool, etc.) when things are predictable. Those markets bleed upwards, we need to know how to support a pool which is 90% long, 10% short, and make sure the hold cost roughly equates to the implied normal growth of those assets. I promise, it wasn't a waste of time!

To answer your question though, the funding should be frozen too, while it's closed.

@Gen man I should break into the math and solve this for you... so tempting. it seems like the big crutch is that the amm is constantly paying out and being bled dry. needs more funding from trade activity and/or strong incentives to subsidize. at minimum these really would work much better with timed limit orders to increase implied liquidity

@Stralor also need partial sells of positions... and not single click accidental full exits

@Stralor (accurately predicted funding amounts in also on my wishlist. the displayed number is clearly 'if your trade didn't move the market this is the funding you'd get but it always moves it and often flips it entirely and can be shocking.)

those all seem the most pressing from a user side. I'll try not adding more suggestions atm or we'll be here all day

With claude I have at least planned the fixes necessary to make all of the issues that have presented here avoidable, which is good!

My assumption is that even once those things are fixed, this market probably would suck anyway. Any market which is going to end up being about trading the derivative (in this case, trading the residual between the forecast and reality), it's probably better if that is the underlying for the perp instead of expecting other mechanics to make it viable

for example, this market would probably make more sense tracking the actual - NESO forecast instead of the raw intensity.

Either way, I'm going to add some more liquidity and let it rip again so I can keep seeing the interactions. Haven't pushed the fixes that would stop it freezing, bc I need to spend a while making sure they make sense mathematically across all markets, but I'm pretty sure those things are ~solved

Thank you for participating throughout the confusion 😅

@Gen Completely unrelated but as an idea, could you add stocks and indexes without funding(ex. S&P500) as a way to invest?

I don't understand the point of this completely cyclical market. I m probably the only person managing to lose mana on this too lol

@Mochi I believe they're using it as the stress testing ground for perp tech. easily the perp that has the most pains

@Mochi In the abstract it could turn into betting on the variation while the predictable expected movement is zeroed out by the market. But it’s clearly not working like that yet.

@moobunny If this doesn’t work, though, the whole concept of perps is flawed.

@Mochi This was basically the perfect stress test, and represents the most extreme predictable swings you would realistically ever expect from any market.

It helps us very quickly understand how the system needs to be adjusted to make this tradeable. If we can get it to that point, then we know how we need to tweak things so that these less-frequent markets can still be viable.

It was never expected to be a sensible market day 1, but it is perfect in the sense that:

• everyone can easily see how to trade on it

• when the funding rates were capped, it was literally free mana - people get to experience ADL and we can stress test that side of things with multiple people

• this kind of movement is ~desirable for perps, this market just does it extremely quickly / frequently. If it were stretched over 1 month ups and downs, it would be easier to adjust everything, but it would also take way longer for us to figure it out.

as it stands, it roughly works with the extreme funding rates, but is still quite weird (mostly because of the oracle jumps).

We may even totally shut down this market eventually, but it has been extremely helpful in the launch

You really don’t want these issues to only come to light in months when, say, the Trump approval rating perp suddenly has a huge predictable swing. It’s also a nice that it’s not an artificial example; it’s a real quantity where predicting it and trading on the uncertainty are definitely relevant to somebody.

Funding is negative but long doesn't have additional notional capacity?

@Simon74fe yeah I'm disappointed that I often can't trade at all, even against the current trend. whatever amm implementation is scaffolded here seems to be failing. that or it's been bled dry