5
Unfair chess against commenters, will I win?
19
closes 2030
56%
chance

This is a match between me and the commenters. Resolves Yes if I checkmate You. Resolve No if I am checkmated or the game ends with a draw. I will not bet.

One rule is added to the chess ruleset (it consists of two sentences, the second one is just elaboration).

The rule is "fair": it doesn't give advantage to any side, is symmetrical, does not depend on the move index.

The fact that I know the rule and others do not is the unfair part of the game. Commenters are encouraged to discuss and try to find out the rule during the game. Commenters are allowed to use programs and help from people even outside Manifold, and I am allowed none of that.

After each my move I will comment with a picture of the current situation on the board. Team of commenters makes a move, when one makes a comment with the move description (similar to 1:Qa1-a2) and it recieves 3 likes from others. (My likes do not count, so I can't sabotage). If the move is illegal, commenters recieve another chance to make a move (unlimited). There is no time control. But i will try to make my move within 3 days. Closing date might be prolonged, do not take it into account.

To prove that the rule is created before the market, I've created a github private repo with the rule commited today, which i'll make public at the end if needed.

+Upd. It was suggested to post a hash of the text containing the rule. MD5: 4f17d1b553afe8f7ffeb8cd88b6f2e8b

+Upd2. If you are not planning to commit a move to be voted on and just want to test legality of several moves, you can write up to 5 moves in a single comment.

Closing date might be prolonged.

I had a peak of 1800 Elo in Lichess classical time control around 4 years ago I think.

Commenters play white, make the first move!

Sort by:
ChristopherRandles avatar
Christopher Randles

Legal: b2-b7 possibly capturing b6?

I'm thinking keeping pawns and pieces contiguous with Nd7 seems like a possible defence against against jumping takes.

ChristopherRandles avatar
Christopher Randles

Legality check: B(c1)xany pawn

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@ChristopherRandles this pack of 16 different moves contains only illegal.

JimHays avatar
Jim Haysis predicting YES at 56%

@KongoLandwalker Ah, if we can do it like this, how about: I try all possible legal moves in standard chess for the current board position. Are they all legal for move 4?

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@JimHays I think all possible standart moves fall into legal Unfair chess moves set at current position.

ChristopherRandles avatar
Christopher Randles
  1. N-f3

ChristopherRandles avatar
Christopher Randles (edited)
Comment hidden
KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@ChristopherRandles All illegal.

JimHays avatar
Jim Haysis predicting YES at 65%
Comment hidden
KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@JimHays illegal

Fion avatar
Fionis predicting NO at 65% (edited)
  1. Bf1-e2

ChristopherRandles avatar
Christopher Randles

@Fion doesn't seem very good, we might prefer g2 placement - unless you are wanting to try e2xf7++ bishops and queens bouncing off side of board.

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

3: d2-d3 Nb8-d7

ChristopherRandles avatar
Christopher Randles

Kongo play could be to hide the rule change from us even if it means sub-optimal play from him until the rule change can be played with decisive effect. For example if pawns could take forward when blocked or take extra columns sideways. Then it might be best to advance pawns quickly but we might discover the rule too soon.

so I suggest d4 but I am quite happy with other suggestions.

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker
JimHays avatar
Jim Haysis predicting YES at 55%

3:Bf1-b5+

SavioMak avatar
Savio Makis predicting NO at 55%

@JimHays Not a good move under normal chess rules, reason for suggesting this?

JimHays avatar
Jim Haysis predicting YES at 55%

@SavioMak Like my other suggestions, I’m testing legality. I’m wondering if there’s any funny business around how check works (like maybe check is not a thing, instead you capture the King. Or maybe some pieces can’t deliver check. (I rate both possibilities as highly unlikely)

Fion avatar
Fionis predicting NO at 55%

Thoughts on the nature of the rule:

Kongo is trying to win this game. As soon as the rule is revealed, we have an advantage (in principle, anyway. In practice Kongo might be better at chess than us, and might have thought a lot about optimal play with the extra rule. Sure we have access to engines, but they don't know about the rule). So Kongo will be trying to get into a situation where after revealing the rule, black is in a winning position even with near perfect play from white.

What kind of rule would allow this? I guess any rule that unexpectedly captures a queen would do it (for example). Hmm, maybe this line of reasoning doesn't tell us much.

Another option is that the rule doesn't add; it takes away. Maybe kings can only move diagonally or something, making checkmate easier.

Or maybe a diagonal line of pawns is somehow powerful, given Kongo's first two moves. Maybe the rearmost pawn can be catapulted along the line. But again, Kongo isn't going to just show us the rule until (in their estimation) it's already too late.

Alright, brain dump done. I'm going to go back to just liking every move that looks reasonable. :P

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@Fion what is your chess Elo?

Fion avatar
Fionis predicting NO at 61%

@KongoLandwalker 1900 lichess rapid, 1750 chesscom rapid. But I've not played regularly for a long time so those are probably both too high.

SavioMak avatar
Savio Makis predicting NO at 55%

3.d2-d3, matching Kongo's move

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@SavioMak stagnation...

SavioMak avatar
Savio Makis predicting NO at 55% (edited)
Comment hidden
KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker
Comment hidden
SavioMak avatar
Savio Makis predicting NO at 61%

@KongoLandwalker Can you hide all the illegal move comments so the comment section is less crowded?

KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker

@SavioMak i did, but they still take volume of the feed.

SavioMak avatar
Savio Makis predicting NO at 55% (edited)

Kongo is advancing his pawns rather slowly, it is pretty suspicious and definitely not a standard chess opening. I suggest that we also match the playstyle and not advance pieces too fast.

The (before-after) notation is also a bit sus. Usually only the after position is written, perhaps something about the rule makes it so that multiple of the same type of piece can end up in the same space? (or maybe Kongo is only writing like this so that people who are less familiar with chess notation can keep up)

JimHays avatar
Jim Haysis predicting YES at 55%
Comment hidden
KongoLandwalker avatar
Kongo Landwalker
Comment hidden

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