KatjaGrace avatar
Katja Grace
closes Feb 1
Will I seek vengeance against Bank of America by January 31?
13%
chance

Our recent interactions, as I understand them (maybe wrong):

  • their automatic credit card payment (paying off my credit card with them from my other account with them) just fails roughly every time

  • I try to pay my credit card bill using their website but this also doesn't seem to work

  • they seem to have charged me a late fee and interest for failing to pay my credit card bill, though paying it is not to my knowledge possible

  • they have recently been declining transactions using my debit card also, and while they say they are processing my online transfer to another account I don't feel optimistic (though maybe they did permit some debit card transactions?)

  • there is no obvious sign on their website about what they have against me using my card or making online payments

  • I phoned them, but after much repeating of numbers to a hearing impaired robot, the call just ended

  • They offer appointments to talk to them, in principle, but do not have any specific appointments this week at the bank I tried or on phones (not sure about future weeks or other banks)

Reasons to expect vengeance:

  • This seems pretty bad, especially the bit where I can't reliably use money at all or promptly contact them about this and fix it

  • I am not convinced that there are good alternate mechanisms for costs of poor treatment of customers by large companies to be properly internalized by those companies

Reasons against expecting vengeance:

  • Forgiveness and kindness are pretty good

  • Perhaps I am mistaken about the situation

  • I am also not always good at my job

  • I have previously contemplated vengeance against Opodo, Comcast and Verizon, and have not exacted any

  • I'm not going to do illegal or unethical things, so the options are limited

  • One of the best legal and ethical vengeances I can think of is to write a really catchy song about how their service is sometimes substandard, and I'm busy and don't have a particular track record of musical comedy hits

Making or drawing attention to this market doesn't count, and nor does casual verbal or online social condemnation or writing a single review expected to get the normal amount of attention. Randomized vengeance only counts if it falls such that I do it (e.g. if I pick a number from one to a million intending that if it lands one I will spend my life destroying their reputation, that doesn't count unless it lands 1). Efforts to mar their reputation at a larger scale than one Tweet, other than by sharing this market, count.

I won't bet. You can perhaps influence my behavior by suggesting effective vengeance ideas, telling me what people normally do in this situation, or persuading me regarding whether vengence is the appropriate way to deal with apparent corporate misdeeds.

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ManifoldDream avatar

Manifold in the wild: A Tweet by Katja Grace

I take back ~1.5 of my grievances in expectation: https://manifold.markets/KatjaGrace/will-i-seek-vengeance-against-bank#4RmTBK2kzHJfiLtx37i4

KatjaGrace avatar

Update: I now think that they aren't as bad as I thought in expectation in at least two ways—

1) plausibly Venmo rather than BoA is causing my transactions to be declined (though apparently calling on BoA then saying 'payment declined - there was an issue with your payment' not 'we've decided you can't use venmo any more this month') so idk

2) the manual paying for my credit card bill has now worked, they merely confused me for bit by saying that my payment had been processed while not showing any money appearing in that account and continuing to warn me aggressively that I hadn't paid my bill, which is less bad but I think still bad. On closer inspection, they seem to say my second attempted payment is processed in one place on their website and not processed in another.

I also thought I tried to manually pay off the bill on occasions prior to two days ago that hadn't worked, but see no record of this, so maybe I'm imagining things or their records suck, but that would be a lot of sucking, so probably I'm misremembering.

NuñoSempere avatar

See <https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-cfpb-orders-wells-fargo-pay-37-bln-penalties-mismanagement-2022-12-20/>. You could figure out the agency in charge of regulating this kind of thing that made Wells Fargo pay a large fine, and refer them to it.

BenGoldhaber avatar
Ben Goldhaber
bought Ṁ15 of YES

You could promote your tweet - you can set a cap on the budget spend, and I think it would probably take... 20 mins to make the ad? Thus inflicting some minor PR damage on the bank

BenGoldhaber avatar
Ben Goldhaber
is predicting YES at 16%

Hmm should've read closer to see online social condemnation doesn't count, so that probably wouldn't count either, even if boosted through ad spend.

MichaelBlume avatar

I wonder if making it technically difficult to pay your credit card bill and then charging late fees is legal? I wonder if there is an agency you could report this to and get them fined.

egroj avatar
JAAM
bought Ṁ5 of YES

would you resolve YES if you change your main bank?

KatjaGrace avatar

@egroj I think no, because it's probably within the realm of what I should do just to forward my own interests, without needing to involve paying of costs to harm them.

ManifoldDream avatar

Manifold in the wild: A Tweet by Katja Grace

What are you supposed to do when companies are really bad to deal with? https://manifold.markets/KatjaGrace/will-i-seek-vengeance-against-bank?r=S2F0amFHcmFjZQ

Austin avatar

Bank of America was my first and still primary bank, mostly because my parents used them (not due to any particular goodness on their end.) I'm curious if anyone has a good rec for an alternative that provides the basic banking services of "hold my money in an online account; have good facilities for withdrawing at ATMs".

Also -- on the off chance anyone else has ever had the bad fortune to deal with Computershare and is looking to coordinate vengeance, hit me up...

egroj avatar

@Austin and @KatjaGrace switch to Ally (https://www.ally.com/), you have access to any ATM because they reimburse you the ATM fees. Also you earn interest even on your checking account (and way more than on a BoA savings account).

egroj avatar

@egroj and they don't charge you bullshit fees: https://www.ally.com/bank/interest-checking-account/

SuperTaxGenius avatar

Best revenge is shifting to a good local credit union