Legalize selling kidneys? Federal minimum wage of $16?
✅Selling kidneys should be legal.✅There should be $16 federal min wage.
✅Selling kidneys should be legal. ❌There shouldn't be $16 federal min wage.
❌Selling kidneys shouldn't be legal. ✅There should be $16 federal min wage.
❌Selling kidneys shouldn't be legal. ❌There shouldn't be $16 federal min wage.
✅Selling kidneys should be legal. ❔Not sure about min wage.
❌Selling kidneys shouldn't be legal. ❔Not sure about min wage.
❔Not sure about kidneys. ✅There should be $16 federal min wage.
❔Not sure about kidneys. ❌There shouldn't be $16 federal min wage.
❔Not sure about kidneys. ❔Not sure about min wage.

Should it be legal to sell your kidney?

  • It's currently illegal to sell your kidney in the USA

  • Arguments for:

    • Increase supply of organs (there is typically a large shortage)

    • For some, large payout is more valuable than a second kidney

    • Reduce healthcare costs associated with long-term dialysis

    • Reduce bias towards pronouncing unconscious organ donors dead

    • Reduce black-market organ trafficking by creating a regulated system

    • Body autonomy arguments (your kidney your choice)

  • Arguments against:

    • Exploiting the poor/desperate is wrong

    • Organs as commodities undermines human dignity

    • Alleviating poverty in a bad way reduces pressure to find better ways

    • Sellers may underestimate long term risk vs short term gain

    • Create disparity where only the rich can afford new organs

    • Create incentive to misrepresent safety/quality of organs

    • Create potential for stolen organs to enter market

    • Body autonomy arguments (pressure to sell body parts)

Would it be good if congress put a $16 federal minimum wage in place?

  • The federal minimum wage in US is currently $7.25

  • Arguments for:

    • Government should ensure wages keep up with cost of living

    • Increase worker health and productivity

    • Reduce inequality between low and high wage workers

    • Some places already have minimum wage above $16

    • Everyone deserves a living wage

    • Accelerate automation

  • Arguments against:

    • Artificially high labour costs cause businesses to close

    • Increase cost of living

    • Fewer jobs, more reliance on welfare

    • Doesn't account for regional differences in cost of living

    • Create incentive to pay workers 'under the table'

    • Makes economy more difficult to understand/analyze

    • People should be allowed to supplement income with lower value work

    • Accelerate automation

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Both of these are about concerns that are rooted in people being poor. Instead of messing up the market we should just give poor people money. Create a carbon tax and maybe land-value tax (aka property tax with building value exemption) and distribute that money evenly among the population.

@AlexanderTheGreater among which population. The US population, or the world population

US. We are talking about US laws that only affect people transacting in the US.

Who in the US is eligible is another question. My preference would be only citizens or anyone who has paid a certain amount in taxes (~100k). That's because I also want trivial immigration that in essence allows everyone who isn't a known criminal to live and work here. But that would likely cause issues if everyone in the country gets UBI.

Take someone who like a lot of the population was born, and still is, involuntarily poor. With a restricted ability to climb the wealth ladder, limited ability to defend themselves legally, especially when against a wealthier interest, and being unhappy with seeing wealthier people living a reasonable life. Being unable to access jobs that empower the country because they are right at the building things by hand end of things rather than the building machines that build other machines end of things. Imagine this person then being incentivised to sell a body part that they might then later need, and once it's on the table as an option isn't that incentivising the government to neglect them (and you) even more, after all, if they want more food or a short holiday once a year selling a kidney is always an option.

I have a theory that a person's stance on the legality of selling organs usually has more to do with their philosophy about the government's ideal role in addressing inequality/poverty, than it has to do with their philosophy about body autonomy/integrity.

Similar poll in a rationalist-adjacent discord.

why are there so many libertarians in these communities

Also why does Orangey have a different opinion than you

@ItsMe Orangey doesn't like engaging with questions of specific numbers. He didn't seem to grasp the kidney question but I suspect he would be pro-legalization if he tried harder to wrap his head around the concept of legalization. He generally likes organs.

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