Should I keep calling rationalists "rats"?
15
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Ṁ100
resolved Jul 3
Resolved
YES
Shall I continue to call fans of LW/EA/ACX, centered on the Bay Area, "rats" instead of "rationalists"? If you don't know what this means, begone! ya got no edge. On close, I'll resolve to what I think, based on comments here and elsewhere. I like "rat" because it's short, cute, and crafty, wheras "rationalist" is logical, perfect, powerful. However, some rationalists hate "rat". I like to use words that we agree on.
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All the reasons y'all gave below, I have heard before. So I resolved YES.
bought Ṁ10 of NO
I don't know how you'll resolve this, but "should" implies a moral obligation and instead I would say that you "may" call us rats.
predicted YES
@MartinRandall Moral... or functional! You _should_keep using the word Rats because it helps to identify posers who are not as rational as they want you to think.
@Duncan Sorry, why does not liking being described as a "rat" mean you're not rational?
predicted YES
@DanielFilan It's a small thing, but complaining about incidental synonyms is a vert post-rat thing to do. "You have to say all the syllables because I don't like that animal" is neither logical nor dignified.
FWIW I think rats have a negative connotation in most of Western culture, not just in the minds of some rationalists. Also I feel like your argument generalizes to generally giving nicknames to people who call themselves 'rationalists' that they don't like - if they complain, presumably that's just as illogical/undignified - but that seems like a needlessly mean thing to do.
predicted NO
I think this backlash doesn't really make sense. People may not like something just because they don't like it, without wanting much to argue about it. I don't think calling people "rational" (ie. having it refer to individuals and not behaviors/way of thinking) doesn't really makes sense in the first place
predicted NO
@Duncan Well I think "rationalist" implies a follower of rationality, which doesn't mean that they're especially rational. Just like someone can be "Christian" without being any good at carpentry or turning the other cheek.
predicted NO
@DanielFilan This seems like an isolated demand for civility that I'd expect more from the "blue tribe" or "Very Serious People" or some other outgroup that rats have given a cute nickname.
@MartinRandall FWIW I'm generally in favour of civility, and don't believe that I use those terms (which I also think are less derogatory in standard English).
@MartinRandall sorry about unclear resolution, but "should x" is shorthand for [will I decide that I should x]. If I phrased the question as "Will I ..." then people would have to factor in the chance that I slip up, but I wanted the question to just be about my decision.
I actually do think @Duncan is being a bit uncivil here. You can say why they are wrong without also calling them posers. It irks me a bit - these are my friends you are talking about. But that's ok! This isn't LW nor metaculus, here we get agreement via mechanism, not via text
predicted NO
@Sinclair my partner has a strong anti-"should" stance, even for "I should" which I've picked up, so I'd phrase the same market as "will I decide to ...". Don't "should" on yourself! Unless you want to.
@MartinRandall I spent a lot of years removing a sense of obligation, which was net good, and I'm just now mending some downsides of that strategy via explicit reasoning about reputation. I think tabooing "should" is a useful exercise to clarify thought, but not good writing advice, especially for titles.
What I'm hearing is that I should not name my pet rat "Eliezer".
predicted NO
@MartinRandall you absolutely should
predicted YES
I would love to be called a rat.
predicted YES
Presumably, if people are upset about a random bit of rhetoric because of spurious associations within popular culture, they aren't true rats anyway.
I know at least two og rationalists who dislike the term. If any thing the young rats (like on discord) like it more.
Sounds a bit derogatory to me. Still, it’s a fun concise abbr.
I just say "my cult" :D Since all my friends think I'm in a cult.
That's new to me, I must be in such a bubble. I've always used the term "rat" and everyone around me does too. I guess I get the argument, though it's essentially the question every community faces about self-humor and bantering (but in that case, since it seems like "rat" is not insult reappropriation, it seems even less contentious) Ultimately though, I guess it depends who you hang out with and whether they mind it or not. As Daniel said, this community will be probably very biased in its answer (I for one would need to hang out more with rationalists who dislike being called "Rats" to find this out)
That said I doubt you'll be convinced, in part because I think manifold selects for people who don't mind the term 'rat'.
Probably depends on the subculture you're in. I dislike the term, and people socially close to me mostly don't use it.
No one lives forever. The number of syllables any one of is gifted to speak in our life is sorely limited. The longer form has between 4-5 syllables, depending on how you say it. The shorter form has only 1. You can do the math. Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?

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