Sight and Sound's decennial film poll is releasing in just a few days. Will Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo retain the #1 spot it earned from Citizen Kane in 2012? This market will resolve based on the results of the critic's poll not director's poll.
Link to 2012 version of the list: https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/greatest-films-all-time
Close date updated to 2022-12-01 11:55 am
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@DavidMathers The closest non-Kane film to Vertigo, if, as alleged neither was first, got barely over half the votes: 107 for Tokyo Story versus 191 for Vertigo. 2001: A Space Odyssey which many people seem to expect got 90, so slightly under half Vertigo's story. And I'm not sure picking a Kubrick film with 0 people in it other than white men fits the other (vague) prediction everyone has made of a big me-too effect on the poll.
I think you make some compelling points and 80:20 is probably too confident on a flip, but I think that more diverse selections and Kubrick’s standing improving are one in the same phenomenon: the voting block becoming younger. Even if the casting is rather dated in 2001, it’s actual themes have only become more relevant with time (although this could be said with many films) and I expect to see that reflected.
@HIPSTERPOTAMUS What are its themes in your view? I actually think that is a tricky question to answer with 2001. Good point about younger voters though. (I hope that doesn't disadvantage Ozu, and does disadvantage technically brilliant but not very watchable silents like Sunrise or Man with a Movie Camera.)
@DavidMathers I think there’s a lot of major themes of technology transplanting humanity and human interaction. I think even beyond HAL, so many of the interactions are so barren and formal between the actors (think of Poole’s non existent reaction to his parent’s video telegram on his birthday) and the movie seems to be suggesting it’s a result of both the technology and space travel (a technological development viewed with much optimism). It’s rather telling that the most bashful/emotional decision of the movie is made by HAL when his pride is bruised after he detects a non-existent fault. (Agree with your opinion on the silent films, but I suspect it’ll probably be a fall across the board. The technical montage films will probably suffer more though)
@HIPSTERPOTAMUS That seems a reasonable shout at identifying a major theme.
I think a counteractive to 'silents will fall, especially montage' is that as people become more suspicious of canons for social justice-y reasons (I'm trying to describe that in as neutral, neither-praise-nor-criticism terms as I can) things that are objectively technically/formally accomplished and foundational can do better, because it's harder to suspect their fame of being the result of nefarious white Anglo male bias.
@DavidMathers I think the existentialist nature of the film also probably ages better for a block of younger voters who are inevitably more secular.
That’s actually a really insightful point. It makes sense that technically accomplished films probably suffer a lot less to more critical views of canon. I still feel like the very nature of the medium’s evolution disadvantages silent films over time though. You never see Beethoven on “Greatest Albums of All Time” lists (even though many impressive LP recordings exist) just due to the fact that the way music is created and consumed changed to such a degree that the very real influence of these artists is no longer tangible anymore.
@HIPSTERPOTAMUS That's because those lists are implicitly lists of music that has a definitive recorded form, and also mostly are list of rock music, with the odd jazz album a rock critic likes. Beethoven would still be a dominating figure over modern composers in a poll about classical music. There isn't really an "all music" poll that is the equivalent to S&S for film, where avant-garde Soviet propaganda gets compared to current mainstream Hollywood, and Indian art films of the 1950s and modern Iranian cinema and anime.
@DavidMathers Yeah that’s kind of my point though. Inevitably the term “film” has stopped embodying Soviet montage propaganda and more feature length dramas because people’s engagement with the medium has changed. You’re probably right though that the LP lists were a bad example as those critics are usually familiar exclusively with pop.
@HIPSTERPOTAMUS Rumor posted to Sight and Sound claiming neither Vertigo or Citizen Kane top the list. Looking like it’ll be 2001
@kolotom99 To the previous iteration of the list? Here you go: https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/greatest-films-all-time
